How is Peyton Manning considered the best QB of all time?
 

Personally, I think he’s a great player, and from all accounts, a great person. His story of redemption so far after being tossed aside in Indy because of his neck issues, is also another great reason to root for him. He's an all-time great, but best ever? The guy is sub-500 in the playoffs, has 1 ring, and has even lost in the big game. The argument that his defenses have been less than stellar is true. But he's always been stacked with offensive weapons - Harrison, Wayne, Clark, James, and so on. In Denver - too many weapons to list.

The counter argument to that is that a team can only be dominant in offense or defense – and his teams obviously are offensive teams. So, what gives? And he hasn’t been stellar in the big games – even in the 2006 Super Bowl win he was very average. He's made critical mistakes at critical points of playoffs games which cost his team a chance to win. Does the best in any sport ever do this? I don't think so. To be the best at something, shouldn’t you be the best when it counts the most?

I wish him the best and he's one of my favorites. I just find all the "Best Ever" coverage unreasonable. What are your thoughts?

I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career.

I've lost almost 300 games.

26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed.

I've failed over and over and over again in my life.

And that is why I succeed.

Michael Jordan

Agree. He's a great guy and if he wins this year in will be one of those all-time great come back stories but the hype is overboard.

Michael Jordan was a winning machine. There is no hype in calling him the greatest.

I think to consider anyone the "best ever" they have to be so overwhelmingly better than the competition that it's really not a debate. Michael Jordan is what comes to mind when I think "best ever". I think Peyton is ONE OF the best ever, but saying that he's at the top of the heap is maybe a bit much.

EDIT: in the two minutes that I spent thinking about and typing my post, there were three replies. Two mentioned Jordan. THAT is what makes you the best ever.:cool:

Just think, if Seattle wins, Russell Wilson, a very good young player himself, will have as many SB wins as Peyton. I won't get into the tired argument of the best must have the rings to show for it, but there's something to that.

Nice. ;)

The problem of the "greatest" ever in football is that there are multiple more variables involved for one person to influence winning champions than the other major sports.

No position relies more on the talent of others than a football quarterback does to win games, and it is not just the offensive talent: defense, special teams, coaches, the "scheme", dome or no dome, etc. are so difficult to make cohesive.

My belief is that Peyton had the ability to influence the talent around him to be successful during the regular season...but the play-offs uncovered the weaknesses of the Colt teams. QB's, it has been said many times, get too much credit for winning, and too much blame for losing.

Best ever? He's pretty good.

He was hardly 'tossed aside' in Indy. He and his agent demanded that his lump sum $36 million payment be made without any demonstration of his capabilities after a potentially career ending surgery. No deal restructuring, no workouts, no examination by team doctors, nothing but blind faith. They knew what they were doing and basically forced the Colts into letting him go. That way he got to maintain his good guy image and go to a team willing to spend big bucks right now on a short term super bowl run. Worked out pretty well for him too.

He is not even the best quarterback the Colts ever had. He is very good though.

Montana

EMJ, good post. I agree with everything you say.

My vote, too. I'm sure he did, but I can't remember watching a SB or playoff game where he flat didn't make the plays necessary to win. Cool as ice.

Well, I've been a Tennessee fan since about the time Peyton was born, so I think he's the best ever and that's that. SmileWavy

Just kidding. It's extremely difficult to label anyone as "best ever". I think Peyton's talent/physical skills are not "best ever", but I would argue that his preparation/knowledge of the game at his position might be close.

It's all very subjective.

You can look at the records and he's up there at the top.

If he retires before Brady then Brady will probably surpass him on pure record.

But the thing about Manning is he is probably the smartest quarterback to play the game.

It's one thing to have the physical abilities to throw a ball on a play called in from the sideline.

Manning runs the offense.

They may come to the line of scrimmage with a play in mind but no one is better than Manning in reading a defense multiple times before a snap and changing plays, reassigning routes and generally adjusting everything on the fly in a matter seconds.

That's who pops into my mind too. No idea how the numbers compare, but the man knew how to win the big games.

I agree with you and IROC on this. Seems this and "best ever" get lumped in together.

Interesting question to all: What if he wins Sunday and the next 2 out of 3? Sure, big odds against this, but will he be the best ever then? Might lean me a little but even then I wouldn't be sure.

At the moment, I'd still take Favre over Manning.

Definitely miss Favre with that knuckle-crushing missile he'd unload with every pass.

If you talk to the players on defense that line against petyon, they'll almost all say he's the best. Not the best athlete, the best QB.
He's the smartest and knows what the defensive coordinator is going to do before the coordinator does.
He anticipates the defense and exploits their weaknesses better than any other quarterback.
His head coaches and offensive coordinators place high praise on him, saying that you better do your homework and have all your plays worked out before you walk into the room, because you know darn well payton already does.


Manning played on a weak team for years and still won a superbowl. He led a weak team to the playoffs year after year, usually getting beat by a much better patriots team.

In 2011 Payton missed the entire year due to his neck injury, and the colts turned into compost without him. Went 0-12 before finishing 2-14.

As a comparison, in 2008 Tom Brady blew out his knee in the first game and missed the entire season. The team went 11-5 with a near-zero NFL experienced backup QB in Matt Cassel.

At NE, Brady has an entire team to help him.
At indy, Manning WAS the entire team.

I'm a big Tom Brady fan, but even I would have to say that Brady is a close 2nd.

PS, how many SB rings does Marino have?

2010
NFL: Ranking The Quarterbacks Using ESPN's New Quarterback Stat - Business Insider
http://static2.businessinsider.com/i...sed-on-qbr.jpg
2013
NFL: QB Rating after week 6
http://cloudcelebrity.wordpress.com/2013/10/18/nfl-qb-rating-after-week-6/
http://cloudcelebrity.files.wordpres...10/qb6-tds.png
http://cloudcelebrity.files.wordpres...0/qb-6-yds.png


More:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr/_/stats/expanded

Keep your eye on one of the youngest QB's out there with a long career in front of him, just has to get his act together.

Kurt Warner: Matthew Stafford most undisciplined QB
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000301598/article/kurt-warner-matthew-stafford-most-undisciplined-qb

Agreed with most of your post right up to this. Manning had weapons in Indy - Harrison, Wayne, Clark - probably all HOF'rs. Problem when he went down was that he controlled a very complex offense that only he could run. Curtis Painter wasn't going to win in that offense, nor was Kerry Collins whom they picked up off the streets. When Brady went down, the backup was able to take over a more "system" offense. Matt Cassel proved he could win the next season as well in K.C.

I'm probably too young to know, but before Manning, were QBs trusted running complex no-huddle offenses and making multiple reads and adjustments pre-snap? Those types of things are expected of top-flight QBs these days, and it seems like he was the genesis of that.

Interesting read, what if Peyton manning and Tom Brady had traded places/teams?:

What if Peyton Manning and Tom Brady had traded places - ESPN

The 2-14 season was the "Suck for Luck" campaign.

It worked to perfection.

Interesting read. I think the knock on Peyton has been that his teams' focus has always been the offense. Brady and the Pats won their Super Bowls with solid defenses and good supporting running games. The 16 and 0 season was their season of the best offense in the league. We know had that one ended. :eek:

OKm, maybe.
Harrison was gone in 2008, Wayne caught 4 td passes in 2011, Clark caught 2.
Did they break their necks too? ;)


Were mannings' replacement QB's really that bad?
OK, Painter was really bad, no argument there.
Orlov-who-sky? Exchange student from the NHL, right?

But Kerry Collins played in the league for a long long time fopr lotsa teams, he hadta have something on the ball, something that wouldn't make those recievers do NOTHING all year?

No question Peyton's absence from the team that year was the primary reason the Colts went 2-14. That complex offense was Peyton's and no one else could run it.

Personally I think these sort of comparisons are pointless when folks incorporate performance numbers and other statistics. There are just too many variable at work that determine the career of a NFL QB (or any pro athlete).

To me a QB is all about being the offensive leader and being reliably consistent with judgement/play calls. Driving to the goal and capping with a winning pass > driving to the goal and throwing a dumb pass for a pick. Not many QB's have that sort of ability.

I always considered Favre top 3 all time until, at the end of his career, he ended most playoff runs with passes to the guys on the other team.

He was always a risk taker. That's what made so much fun to watch back in the early 90s.

Sure, it didn't always work out, but those were fun games to watch. I loved it and hated it at the same time.

It's better than watching Brady or Marino, for that matter.

Absolutely. At the end of his career Favre could still sling it off of his back foot 60 yards and hit a receiver on the sideline on the hands with a DB draped on him like a blanket. Good times. :)

I read recently that Manning takes over the Offensive Coordinator's clicker during team sessions and the team immediately perks up. :eek:
.
As far as the topic, I really don't care. :)

LOL, of course it's pointless, it's all subjective. That's part of what makes it fun.



There was a time when Elway was famous for game-winning drives. He was the best at comeback wins, while other QBs didn't have to come back from behind because they were already ahead. Elway was AWESOME for part of those years, but for the rest he was just so so like the small-market team he played for. His teams sucked for a long time, until he finally won two superbowls and retired.
Loved how the guy played the game, strong arm, good control, certainly ONE of the best.
'cept he went to stanford.


Anyone remember the story about Montana during "the drive"?
Read More: Joe Montana - Super Bowl XXIII (Miami, FL) - Greatest Super Bowl Moments - Photos - SI.com

I really liked watching Montana play. And he went to Notre dame, which is a plus.

But he wan't the best QB of all time, he wasn't even the best QB ON THE NINERS.
Steve Young proved that after Montana went to KC. he could do everything Montana cound do plus run for TD's. Highest QB rating, highest completion, most accurate, etc.



And what's up with all this talk about brett favrreayoux? Again not even the best QB on the team.
The packers became a better team when favre left and finally got the heck out of the way so the discount double-check guy Aaaraaaron could win some championships, a SB, and a SB MVP.
But Aaaaaron can't even come close to throwing stoopid no-look sidearm interceptions like brett did on a regular basis.


Not even gonna mention Aikman 'cause he went to UCLA.



Naw, only one QB has won 4 national titles in 12 years, and revolutionized (invented) the forward pass.

The best evar:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1390862057.jpg

Well that figures. You couldn't beat him when he was on. Aikman reminds me of Brady, minus the pussification of the NFL. He had a supporting cast, true, but he took some big lumps.

Crisp passing, time and time again. Montana had that, in emergencies.

When I think of the best QB of all time I begin to think of those QBs who called their own plays...so Unitas, I guess, and the other QBs back then...and the only "modern era" one I can think of is Manning.

Montana. He didn't have a particularly strong arm. Not a great runner. Much of his game consisted of swing passes with a lot of yards after the catch. But he was very accurate. But most of all, he could read the field and go through the progressions like nobody else.

Bill Walsh recognized someone in Montana who could run the offense that he was just inventing. It was a system that was designed to win gamers with precision, using high percentage throws. Joe did it to perfection. He is perhaps the best because of that. When he got the ball in that Super Bowl at his own 8, and 3:20 to go, I was certain the Niners would win the game. So was everyone else in the stadium. It's what Joe did.

Manning is right up there, though. He has a better arm, and can also pick apart defenses with precision. But his track record in the post season is somewhat lacking. If loses next week with a lackluster performance, then it's hard to call him the best ever. If he crushes the 'Hawks, then we still have an argument.

I was too young to watch Montana. But Steve Young and Favre is where it's at for me.

In terms of recent QBs, it's Rodgers, Brees and Manning.

I see Russell Wilson and Kopernick being the next Michael Vick. Running QBs just don't last.

Sammy I thought sure you were going to say Otto Graham.