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EMJ EMJ is offline
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How is Peyton Manning considered the best QB of all time?

Personally, I think he’s a great player, and from all accounts, a great person. His story of redemption so far after being tossed aside in Indy because of his neck issues, is also another great reason to root for him. He's an all-time great, but best ever? The guy is sub-500 in the playoffs, has 1 ring, and has even lost in the big game. The argument that his defenses have been less than stellar is true. But he's always been stacked with offensive weapons - Harrison, Wayne, Clark, James, and so on. In Denver - too many weapons to list.

The counter argument to that is that a team can only be dominant in offense or defense – and his teams obviously are offensive teams. So, what gives? And he hasn’t been stellar in the big games – even in the 2006 Super Bowl win he was very average. He's made critical mistakes at critical points of playoffs games which cost his team a chance to win. Does the best in any sport ever do this? I don't think so. To be the best at something, shouldn’t you be the best when it counts the most?

I wish him the best and he's one of my favorites. I just find all the "Best Ever" coverage unreasonable. What are your thoughts?
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:00 AM
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I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career.

I've lost almost 300 games.

26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed.

I've failed over and over and over again in my life.

And that is why I succeed.

Michael Jordan
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:04 AM
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Agree. He's a great guy and if he wins this year in will be one of those all-time great come back stories but the hype is overboard.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:05 AM
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Michael Jordan was a winning machine. There is no hype in calling him the greatest.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:06 AM
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I think to consider anyone the "best ever" they have to be so overwhelmingly better than the competition that it's really not a debate. Michael Jordan is what comes to mind when I think "best ever". I think Peyton is ONE OF the best ever, but saying that he's at the top of the heap is maybe a bit much.

EDIT: in the two minutes that I spent thinking about and typing my post, there were three replies. Two mentioned Jordan. THAT is what makes you the best ever.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:07 AM
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Just think, if Seattle wins, Russell Wilson, a very good young player himself, will have as many SB wins as Peyton. I won't get into the tired argument of the best must have the rings to show for it, but there's something to that.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stomachmonkey View Post
I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career.

I've lost almost 300 games.

26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed.

I've failed over and over and over again in my life.

And that is why I succeed.

Michael Jordan
Nice.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:15 AM
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The problem of the "greatest" ever in football is that there are multiple more variables involved for one person to influence winning champions than the other major sports.

No position relies more on the talent of others than a football quarterback does to win games, and it is not just the offensive talent: defense, special teams, coaches, the "scheme", dome or no dome, etc. are so difficult to make cohesive.

My belief is that Peyton had the ability to influence the talent around him to be successful during the regular season...but the play-offs uncovered the weaknesses of the Colt teams. QB's, it has been said many times, get too much credit for winning, and too much blame for losing.

Best ever? He's pretty good.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMJ View Post
His story of redemption so far after being tossed aside in Indy because of his neck issues, is also another great reason to root for him.
He was hardly 'tossed aside' in Indy. He and his agent demanded that his lump sum $36 million payment be made without any demonstration of his capabilities after a potentially career ending surgery. No deal restructuring, no workouts, no examination by team doctors, nothing but blind faith. They knew what they were doing and basically forced the Colts into letting him go. That way he got to maintain his good guy image and go to a team willing to spend big bucks right now on a short term super bowl run. Worked out pretty well for him too.
Old 01-27-2014, 11:20 AM
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He is not even the best quarterback the Colts ever had. He is very good though.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:23 AM
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Montana
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:25 AM
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EMJ, good post. I agree with everything you say.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
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Montana
My vote, too. I'm sure he did, but I can't remember watching a SB or playoff game where he flat didn't make the plays necessary to win. Cool as ice.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:31 AM
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Well, I've been a Tennessee fan since about the time Peyton was born, so I think he's the best ever and that's that.

Just kidding. It's extremely difficult to label anyone as "best ever". I think Peyton's talent/physical skills are not "best ever", but I would argue that his preparation/knowledge of the game at his position might be close.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:31 AM
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It's all very subjective.

You can look at the records and he's up there at the top.

If he retires before Brady then Brady will probably surpass him on pure record.

But the thing about Manning is he is probably the smartest quarterback to play the game.

It's one thing to have the physical abilities to throw a ball on a play called in from the sideline.

Manning runs the offense.

They may come to the line of scrimmage with a play in mind but no one is better than Manning in reading a defense multiple times before a snap and changing plays, reassigning routes and generally adjusting everything on the fly in a matter seconds.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
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Montana
That's who pops into my mind too. No idea how the numbers compare, but the man knew how to win the big games.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:41 AM
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EMJ EMJ is offline
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But the thing about Manning is he is probably the smartest quarterback to play the game.
I agree with you and IROC on this. Seems this and "best ever" get lumped in together.

Interesting question to all: What if he wins Sunday and the next 2 out of 3? Sure, big odds against this, but will he be the best ever then? Might lean me a little but even then I wouldn't be sure.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:42 AM
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At the moment, I'd still take Favre over Manning.
Old 01-27-2014, 11:55 AM
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At the moment, I'd still take Favre over Manning.
Definitely miss Favre with that knuckle-crushing missile he'd unload with every pass.
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:59 AM
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If you talk to the players on defense that line against petyon, they'll almost all say he's the best. Not the best athlete, the best QB.
He's the smartest and knows what the defensive coordinator is going to do before the coordinator does.
He anticipates the defense and exploits their weaknesses better than any other quarterback.
His head coaches and offensive coordinators place high praise on him, saying that you better do your homework and have all your plays worked out before you walk into the room, because you know darn well payton already does.


Manning played on a weak team for years and still won a superbowl. He led a weak team to the playoffs year after year, usually getting beat by a much better patriots team.

In 2011 Payton missed the entire year due to his neck injury, and the colts turned into compost without him. Went 0-12 before finishing 2-14.

As a comparison, in 2008 Tom Brady blew out his knee in the first game and missed the entire season. The team went 11-5 with a near-zero NFL experienced backup QB in Matt Cassel.

At NE, Brady has an entire team to help him.
At indy, Manning WAS the entire team.

I'm a big Tom Brady fan, but even I would have to say that Brady is a close 2nd.
Old 01-27-2014, 11:59 AM
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