What would the US be like if we didn't enter WW2
 

Crazy thought but if the allies were able to stop Hitler without the help from the US......what would the US be like today??...how different?

Most scenarios don't explore a Allied victory without the US, they predict a collapse with the US/Canada standing alone.

Hawaii would be speaking Japaneses

That I know, but lets just say, if something happend, what ever it may be and the US did not enter the war how different would the US be..

hitler would have still have died on the exact same day-

Porsche might be different

I wonder, without Operation Paperclip, where would the US have been in the space race and military aviation?

Lots of combinations and permutations, I like to think that the nasty and evil would have been victims of their own evils no matter what anyone else did. In my mind, there are 4 particular turning points that would have fundamentally changed WWII.

1. If the Nazi's would not have invaded the Soviet, but rather just consolidated and integrated western Europe.

2. If the US trade embargo would not have caused the warped guys in Tokyo to think that they could defeat the US in the Pacific starting with Pearl Harbour. I also think had they had the courage of their convictions and pursued the second strike, the story might have been materially altered...albeit with the same ultimate outcome.

3. If the Nazis had resisted the temptation to declare war on the US after Pearl Harbour. The US would have focused its energy on defeating Japan, and might well have stopped there and not gone on to support England other than perhaps materially.

4. If Hitler had not allowed himself to be duped into attacking and trying to take Stalingrad, but rather would have focused on consolidating his gains with perhaps a focus encircling Moscow and holding a more defensive posture against the rather poor military leadership/tactics of the Soviets.

Dennis

The possibilities are endless. The Japanese could well still be in control of all of China. No Mao revolution with the Japanese military in control. No Communist China. Japan could be a superpower in control of the entire Pacific and all of Asia.

We would never have had Von Braun and no moon shot or NASA.

It would be a very different world.

The wartime economy brought us out of the great depression and created the post war boom. Nazi rocket technology and engineering masterminds shaped our modern military, space program, and arguably way of life. Without either we never would have become the world super power we are today.

If you really want to twist your brain.. could our Allies have even won the Second World War if America didn't enter?

My guess is maybe not. For example.. The Russian military didn't even become the effective fighting force it was until the American lend lease program offered them the tools and vehicles to truly mobilize the Red Army, which was the only way they were able to counter the German Blitzkrieg.

Youz guys have never read Alfred Mahan.
His premise is that sea power rules the world.

Hitler could never have jumped the channel. The US was big on Lend-Lease
The Japanese couldn't conquer Australia and China at the same time
....not enough bodies.
The Germans & Russians would have exhausted each other.

US entry into a war was unavoidable.
The Brits, Canucks, Aussies & the US of A still held the winning hand,....not to mention THE BOMB, just my .02.

Ministry of Space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One of my favorite "what-if" comics..

Depends on what you mean by entering the war?
With just lend lease, the allies would have still won. It would have taken four or five years longer and most of Europe, if not all would have ended up behind the Iron Curtain.
Without lend lease we would have lost Europe, Africa, maybe the U.K.

The point is moot as there was no way the U.S could have avoided fighting.

Just my thoughts
Steve

Hitler was no worse than Stalin. The US did not have to enter the war. The world would have looked much the same in the end, except US would now be on even footing with the EU-reich, and the USSR.

China/Japan would be interesting. I don't have a guess what would have happened there long term.

How do you figure the US didn't have to enter the War?

Check out Richard Harris's Fatherland. It's a murder mystery that takes place in Berlin in 1964 after Germany won WWII. They were preparing for Hitler's 75th b-day, there were no Jews left at all and all Slavs were slave laborers in what used to be Russia. All cars were black or brown. Joseph Kennedy was president of the US and the Cold War was between the US and Nazi Germany.

I'm not sure how Hitler could have won unless he would have finally handed the real decision making over to his generals. By the time von Stauffenburg launched his assassination attempt, I dare say, killing Hitler would have been a blow to the Allies. Hitler was his own worst enemy, overextending supply lines, firing competent generals, micromanaging everything. Had he let the pros run things, Germany could very well have won even with the US entering.

But... if there were no US boots on the ground or even bombing campaigns, the Russians obviously would not have stopped at the Elbe. They'd have gone all the way to France maybe farther. That would have made for a very different Cold War.

The Russians would have never gotten out of Russia.

Germany, without the threat of a second front anywhere (Italy, Japan, Africa, etc., no strategic bombing) gathers more countries into the fold. Solidifies. England isn't a threat.

Stalin sues for peace, the AXIS powers expand, Germany gets the bomb first since the Manhattan Project doesn't happen.

The planet is different.

Japan owns the East, Germany the West. Canada and the US worry about an invasion from the south.

watch the movie IRON SKY --

Kinda hard to get around the US embargo of Japan......US only went after Germany AFTER they declared war as a result of Pearl Harbor.

Alternate endings
 

With Hitler running the German military, Germany would have still lost. The Russians would have controlled more of Europe and England would have suffered more. The US would have taken longer to get thru the great depression and Japan would have controlled most if not all of the Pacific. The worst part would be that the world populations would have suffered for more years than they did. Not a pretty picture.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...igh_Castle.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_in_the_High_Castle

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_victory_in_World_War_II

Interesting alternative take on WWII by non other than Pat Buchanan:

Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World: Patrick J. Buchanan: 9780307405166: Amazon.com: Books

Among the British and Churchillian errors were:
• The secret decision of a tiny cabal in the inner Cabinet in 1906 to take Britain straight to war against Germany, should she invade France
• The vengeful Treaty of Versailles that mutilated Germany, leaving her bitter, betrayed, and receptive to the appeal of Adolf Hitler
• Britain’s capitulation, at Churchill’s urging, to American pressure to sever the Anglo-Japanese alliance, insulting and isolating Japan, pushing her onto the path of militarism and conquest
• The greatest mistake in British history: the unsolicited war guarantee to Poland of March 1939, ensuring the Second World War

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1392683991.jpg

I received this via email the other day. This is proported to be factual but since it came via email I give take it with a huge pile of salt.

Twelve Odd WWII Facts

You might enjoy this from Col D. G. Swinford, USMC, Retired and a
history buff. You would really have to dig deep to get this kind of
ringside seat to history.


1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the
Japanese (China, 1937), The first American serviceman killed was
killed by the Russians (Finland 1940); The highest ranking American
killed was Lt Gen Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps.


2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 years old: Calvin Graham, USN. He
was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his
age. His benefits were later restored by Act of Congress.


3. At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called
CINCUS (pronounced 'sink us'); The shoulder patch of the US Army's
45th Infantry division was the swastika. Hitler's private train was
named 'Amerika.' All three were soon changed for PR purposes.


4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps.
While completing the required 30 missions, an airman's chance of being
killed was 71%.


5. Generally speaking, there was no such thing as an average fighter
pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese Ace
Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a
passenger on a cargo plane.


6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a big mistake. Tracers
had different ballistics so (at long range), if your tracers were
hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet,
tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which
direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of
tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo.
This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units
that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and
their loss rate go down.


7. When allied armies reached the Rhine, the first thing men did was
pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to
Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had
himself photographed in the act).


8. German ME-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City, but
they decided it wasn't worth the effort.


9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.


10. Among the first 'Germans' captured at Normandy were several
Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until
they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian
Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for
the German Army until they were captured by the US Army.


11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 United States and
Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleutian Islands. 21
troops were killed in the assault on the island... It could have been
worse if there had actually been any Japanese on the island.


12. The last marine killed in WW2 was killed by a can of spam. He was
on the ground as a POW in Japan when rescue flights dropping food and
supplies came over, The package came apart in the air and a stray can
of spam hit him and killed him.

I thought it was 25 missions?

Not exactly true.


The massive Messerschmitt Me 264 long-range bomber was cancelled on September 23rd, 1944 - this after three were constructed.
Messerschmitt Me 264 Amerika (America) - Long-Range Bomber / Reconnaissance / Maritime Patrol Aircraft - History, Specs and Pictures - Military Aircraft
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircr...64-amerika.jpg
Only one flew...................I had never read of the aircraft before.

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_264

my uncle died at the end of the war off the coast of Argentina. his ship was torpedoed; knocking a life boat loose, and hitting my great uncle Lane on the head.
I am his namesake and visit his grave each memorial day-

Might have been one of these two U-Boats.

German U-boats that surrendered at the end of the War - Fates - uboat.net
Some background:
http://www.u-boot-archiv-cuxhaven.de/lang1/u_977.html

Looks as though the u-boats above elected to surrender in Argentina after the fall, and perhaps were not the Antarctic base boats operating off the Argentinean coast.

While the Me 264 never was a real possibility to deliver bombs from Germany to New York, Germany definitely had the potential capability since1938 to fly large planes directly New York. Lufthansa started regular, no-stop, pasenger service between Berlin and New York in 1938! The plane was the Focke-Wolf 200. Several hundred were built and they served as military planes in WW2. So, technically, Hitler had the capability to drop a nuclear bomb on New York, if he had one.

http://gelh-stuttgart.de/uploads/ima...ff%20FW200.jpg

Focke-Wulf Fw 200 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Condor had it's own issues, still better than the Me 264 from what I've been reading.

Focke-Wulf Fw 200 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Germany never really had a decent heavy bomber.

The nazis would have won and controlled the gulf, and the oil. There probably wouldn't be a jihad going on right now.

If your aunt had balls, she would be your uncle.

I don't like this type of speculation. It is like trying to predict the weather. Too many variables. Who knows.

Personally, I would not exist in the same genetic makeup. Some of my ancestors would not have lived to reproduce. So I am glad it went the way it did and I am not going to speculate how I would exist with different genes. Would I be the same person? ;)

G

I'm just glad Edith Keeler died in that traffic accident.

And Schultz would be the Gauleiter of Zincinnati

Reading a WEB Griffin on the Nazi Operation Phoenix. Subs taking the higher ups and war booty to Argentina.

Without the added pressures of American advancements in technology and added money/productivity of American war machine manufacturing, the axis would have won the war. American troops was not as crucial but this country would not have invested the time, money and materials if we didn't have our boys over there. Just think what would have happened if Germany developed the bomb before we did. To say that Germany would have lost anyway is wishful thinking and naive.

Intersting documentary of what the Luftwaffe would have had in their arsenal if it were still flying in 1946:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Y9wyJNsATXE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Germany effectively lost the war between Dec 6, 1941 and the fall of 1942, long before the US entry into the war had any effects on the war in Europe. The only thing which might have altered the outcome would be Germany developing and using nuclear weapons on the Eastern front and there is no guarantee they would have developed them.

The Russian counter-offensive launched on Dec. 6, 1942 drove the Germans from the suburbs of Moscow back several hundred miles in the dead of one of the coldest Russian winters on record and ended any chance the Germans had of taking Moscow. The slaughter of the German 6th Army at Stalingrad in late 1942 sealed their fate... and Kursk in 1943 effectively ended the Wehrmacht's ability to launch any major offensives. All this long before the US was making any significant contribution to the ETO.

As Churchill stated after the war, it was the Russian army that tore the guts out of the Wehrmacht.

German scientists were close to completing the bomb. A completed bomb would have been a game changer.

A completed bomb would definitely have been a game changer. This is a good synopsis of where the Germans really were re: a nuclear weapon.

"How close were the Nazis to developing an atomic bomb? The truth is that National Socialist Germany could not possibly have built a weapon like the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. This was not because the country lacked the scientists, resources, or will, but rather because its leaders did not really try."

For the full article: NOVA | Nazis and the Bomb

Not so. The Germans never attempted to build a nuclar bomb. They only attempted to build a nuclear power plant. Power was important for the war economy. The German scientists knew the bomb would require enormeous resources and they were in short supply during the war. A nuclear power plant requires a lot fewer resources and, at the time, was a much more realistic goal to achieve.

We would still be in the depression. War = jobs.