gotta go to court next month

T77911S · 02-28-2014, 08:56 AM

you think i am in the right or wrong? do you think i satand a chance?

we are being sued by our old landlord for my wifes business because we moved out a year before our contract was up.

we let him know several months in advance that we wanted to move. he said we need to get someone to take our space, he would even help. (he never did) we asked for that in writing, he would not do it.
there was another guy in the same complex that was going to move out when his lease was up in 3 months and the landlord new it. he wanted a bigger space. he decided he wanted our space since it was bigger.
in the mean time, the landlord was trying to tell my wife she was going to have to sign a NEW contract for the rest of OUR time but for his old space. she told him no we would not do that.
we moved out at the end of november and the new tenant moved in the 1st of december. a month or so later we get a email from the landlord wanting 3 months rent, electric(another story here) and he tacked on a $2500 late fee. he would waive the late fee if we paid everything else, close to 10k.

thats it in its short form.

the electric bill:
our unit and the unit next door use to be one big unit. he split it in half but never put in a second meter base so it was 2 renters on one electric bill.
he added the electric bill into the rent, but at the end of the year we would alwasy get this bill he printed off his computer for more electric. (he never would provide actual bills). and get this, since he added electirc into our rent, he would be getting more than jsut the rent since we would not be in the unit thus no electricity.
here is the kicker. HIS contract stated that the electric bills HAD to be in our name.
we could not do that due to one meter base. i think the contract should be thrown out based on that.
his contract also stated that any other agreements had to be in writing.

my point of view is that if he wanted to move one of his tenants into OUR space, filling or paying for the other tenats space is between that tenant and the landlord, not me.

pavulon · 02-28-2014, 09:11 AM

Not an atty. but if lawyers get involved you need to have a water-tight case and be awarded your lawyer fees or you'll lose a pile here. Better to settle early.

If it's a small claims court deal and there is a paper trail in your favor, you could stand a chance.

T77911S · 02-28-2014, 09:21 AM

im not paying that lying crook a penny(not the lawyer) until a judge makes me.
this has been going on over a year now, its GOING to court.
yea its got my money tied up right now and i have a room that has been gutted and i need a new AC, but i cant do any of that until this is done.

i offered him a couple of grand jsut before we moved out to terminate the contract. he said i cant just come in here and offer money to terminte the contract. he should have taken it.

drcoastline · 02-28-2014, 09:32 AM

This is a commercial space correct? Do you have a lease? What does the cancellation clause say? Did you give written notice?

Assuming your short form explanation is correct ( there is two sides to every story) I think you will fair pretty well in court. He didn't lose anything. Unless of course the tenant who took your place pays less.

I go to court next month also. I own a commercial building with a partner he filed charges against me for stealing the mailbox.

Evans, Marv · 02-28-2014, 09:40 AM

Isn't it illegal to collect rent from two tenants at the same time? When you moved out, the other tenant moved in & started paying rent. If he's demanding rent from you for during that time, he's trying to collect rent from two tenants for the same property at the same time.

T77911S · 02-28-2014, 09:55 AM

we did send him a registered letter letting him know we wanted to move out. we also tried to get him to put it in writing at that time what his stipulations were. (i now know why he did not want to. now he thinks he can make up the rules after the fact).

thats my point. if someone else moves into my space, i cant use it, why should i pay for it.
what he wants is for me to pay for the OTHER guys space that he moved out of.

he just went to court because of another tenant.
he was doing the same thing. he was charging her electric and when he wanted more money, she asked for the electric bills. he would not give them to her. she did not pay and he turned off her electric. it went to court, he told the judge 2 different sotries and the judge ruled against him.
from what we now hear, no one ever moves out under good terms with him.

i feel very confident but i am also nervous about it. we really dont have the money for this but im not going to be bullied into paying him just because of the cost of going to court.
i also just wish it was over. tired of dealing with it.

Evans, Marv · 02-28-2014, 10:08 AM

You seem to be telling a lot of stories about what you said/he said/what others said. I really hope you have all of your documentation lined up, organized, and in time order. If you have an attorney, that should be part of his job. If you are going to small claims court you'll need that to prevail. In small claims court, you can only get the money you are out because of his actions. If you have an attorney, I would be going for as much as possible and show what prior actions he has made that you can substantiate to demonstrate to the court a pattern. Glad to hear you are standing up for yourself.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

Small claims courts are courts of equity not courts of law. The judge can make shyt up as he goes along. Put your claim / evidence in written form so your story is easy to understand and don't accuse the plaintiff of wrong doing just be clear about what your side is.
I believe that he (the plaintiff) is entitled to recover any losses he uncured by virtue of your early termination. If he rents the space, his claim for rent is mitigated. If the space was empty for any time, you owe that rent. If the space rents for less, you owe the difference. If the contract calls for legal fees and your state allows for them you may be on the hook for those as well.
Good luck

Z-man · Z-man's Garage

What does your contract say about:

- Ending the agreement early? They may be a penalty for early end - but that wouldn't be a year's worth of rent -- maybe you loose your deposit and a month's rent, but it can't me much more than that.

- Sub-leasing the property to someone else. It seems to me that this is essentially what you did when you gave over your space to the other tenant.

As for the electric bill - I would never enter into an agreement where I do not have a separate meter for the space that I am leasing. For one thing, you don't know how much of the electric you are actually using.

My $0.42,
-Z-man.

drcoastline · 02-28-2014, 10:23 AM

Did you have a lease? What does the cancellation clause say?

McLovin · 02-28-2014, 11:15 AM

Most commercial leases don't have a cancellation clause. You are on the hook for the entire lease term.

So, when you leave before the end of the term, you still owe for the entire term.

BUT, the landlord has a duty to mitigate his damages. The primary way is to find a new tenant. In theory, if you move out on the last day of the month and a new tenant moves in the next day, paying the same rent, there are no damages.

Yours is an interesting case because the "new" tenant was already a tenant in the complex. So, at the end of the day, arguably your moving out and the "new" tenant in doesn't improve the landlord's position much. You moving out still leaves him with a vacancy that he would not have otherwise had. In other words, the net effect of your moving out and the new tenant moving over to your unit is that the landlord still has a vacancy at the property - caused by you.

You may want to research that issue a bit.

Henry Schmidt · Henry Schmidt's Garage

In the OPs original statement , he states that the tenant in question (new) only had 3 month left on his lease so if he truly needed more space it can be argued that he would have left the complex at the end of his lease seeking a more appropriate (larger) location. Landlord would still have an empty unit if the OP decided to continue his lease.
If the landlord forgave the remaining rent on the small unit in order to entice the "new" tenant to take the larger unit, the OP owes nothing. Forgiveness for one is forgiveness for both.

The judge can seek a just resolution or just listen to the best argument. Either way, it's a crap shoot.

McLovin · 02-28-2014, 12:36 PM

Didn't notice that, that's a good point and a helpful fact.

Is this in small claims court?

Like said above, it's a crapshoot, esp. with all these facts and esp. in small claims. The LL will probably claim that even though the new tenant moved in, the landlord had to make repairs to the unit, give concessions, had other expenses, etc. you'll have your arguments. The judge will do what feels right to him.

I think the most important thing is to read and understand all of the relevant terms of the lease very, very well. And be prepared to argue those terms.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by T77911S

you think i am in the right or wrong? do you think i satand a chance?

we are being sued by our old landlord for my wifes business because we moved out a year before our contract was up.

we let him know several months in advance that we wanted to move. he said we need to get someone to take our space, he would even help. (he never did) we asked for that in writing, he would not do it.
there was another guy in the same complex that was going to move out when his lease was up in 3 months and the landlord new it. he wanted a bigger space. he decided he wanted our space since it was bigger.
in the mean time, the landlord was trying to tell my wife she was going to have to sign a NEW contract for the rest of OUR time but for his old space. she told him no we would not do that.
we moved out at the end of november and the new tenant moved in the 1st of december. a month or so later we get a email from the landlord wanting 3 months rent, electric(another story here) and he tacked on a $2500 late fee. he would waive the late fee if we paid everything else, close to 10k.

thats it in its short form.

the electric bill:
our unit and the unit next door use to be one big unit. he split it in half but never put in a second meter base so it was 2 renters on one electric bill.
he added the electric bill into the rent, but at the end of the year we would alwasy get this bill he printed off his computer for more electric. (he never would provide actual bills). and get this, since he added electirc into our rent, he would be getting more than jsut the rent since we would not be in the unit thus no electricity.
here is the kicker. HIS contract stated that the electric bills HAD to be in our name.
we could not do that due to one meter base. i think the contract should be thrown out based on that.
his contract also stated that any other agreements had to be in writing.

my point of view is that if he wanted to move one of his tenants into OUR space, filling or paying for the other tenats space is between that tenant and the landlord, not me.

Shared metering is a big bad no-no. Is your landlord sure he wants to go down that rabbit hole?

T77911S · 02-28-2014, 04:19 PM

not small claims court. $$ amount is too much.

got a lawyer, hope he is a good one.

i am hoping the shared meter base and the fact his contract stated we had to put the electric in our name will negate the contract.

2 days after we moved out the new tenant moved in. i would think that would terminate my lease, after all, if i cant use the space, why should i pay for it.

yea i have been pretty stupid with this. not to blame my wife but i let her handle most of signing the lease and i did not read over it very well. never thought things would get so bad and the lease would be so much in his favor. unfortunately sometimes life lessons cost $$.

i made sure our new lease had an exit clause.

fred cook · fred cook's Garage

I have owned and managed a commercial building w/4 suites for 35 years. Over those years, I have had a small number of tenants that have had to move out early for one reason or the other. Normally, I let them out of their lease but keep the security deposit. I try to be there on their last day to wish them well, shake hands and part as friends. Over all those years I have only had to kick one guy out for non payment of rent. There is no reason to be a grinch! Good luck on your day in court!

john70t · 03-01-2014, 01:33 PM

That is convoluted.
You have to keep it simple to your situation. Stick with the facts. Only.

1). You had a contract to pay the entirety of the lease duration, in monthly installments.

2). You signed a sublease with another party, to have them to fulfill your obligation for the remaining 12 months.

I assume your security deposit was returned by the subleter.
Any further obligations to yourself should be null and void at this point.
The subleter now assumes full responsibility for the lease.

Big Q: Are subleters specifically disallowed in the lease? (Y/N)
Big Q: By city code/etc? (Y/N)

3). That party was responsible for fulfilling the remaining 3 months of his own lease.
That has nothing to do with you.
The Landlord can't just make up 1-party contracts out of thin air.
Such might be attempted fraud and/or extortion.

4). The Landlord also has been charging you electric for another unit.
That may be fraud as well, unless specifically written and noted in your contract.
You may be able to recover half of those costs.

T77911S · 03-05-2014, 06:27 AM

no, no sublease.
a current tenant moved from one unit to ours once we moved out. he signed a new contract with the landlord within a week of us moving out.

the only verbal agreement we had with the landlord was that we had to find someone to take over our space.

i figured out his angle.
he is proposing that HE moved the new tenant in AFTER we moved out so we should have to pay for the last 3 months rent for the new tenants old unit.
confusing?
we have a dozen or so witnesses that saw the new tenant measuring and looking at our space BEFORE we moved out, and at least once the lanlord came over with him.

he sent us a bill on dec 26th demanding $8k and that it be paid in 5 days, by the 31st, but we have a letter from his lawyer stating that we agreed to this on the 26th. which we never did.
here is my point. the first week of dec the new tenant moved into our space and signed a contract that week so why should i agree to pay anything because as far as i was concerned my contract is terminated as soon as my space is rented.

here is a good one.
from what i have heard my lawyer has subpoenaed (?) the landlord 3 times for copies of the electric bill and he has not provided them.
this goes along with one of his former tenants that requested copies of the elctric bill and he refused to give them to her. in the end she sued and won.
i dont know if this will fly with the elctric bill.
becuse the contract stated the electric had to be in our name and we could not do that because of one meter base and 2 units, he "added" the electric to our rent, (not in the contract), so we may be able to get all that money back. (?)

i also want to know if the contract can be voided all together since he did not comply with the electric portion of the contract.

biosurfer1 · 03-05-2014, 07:08 AM

I know there are often times when tenants can be PITA's too (doesn't seem like it in this case), but this seems like SO much work for the landlord in this case. Trying to sue the tenant for 3 months rent on a shaky case?? Put in 1/10th the work/energy/money trying to find a new tenant and you are money ahead and a lot less stress and time dealing with courts. SMH

sammyg2 · 03-05-2014, 07:34 AM

Take all the legal mumbo jumbo out and lets see what we have:

You made a promise to pay for a specific length lease at a specific price. The landlord aggreed not to kick you out early or raise the price, and you agreed to pay for it for an entire term.

You didn't keep your promise (left 12 months early).

You still owe 12 months worth of lease.

Yes that is grossly over-simplified and doesn't necessarily mean anything in regard to our legal system. But it needed to be pointed out.