Thinking About a Used 996 or 997

[jdlowery]

First of all let me apologize for such a generic title. I'm hoping to gain a little insight without too much confusion. So, here's my story. My present car is a 2007 Lexus IS350. Nice car but not really a sports car. More luxury than sport and without a manual transmission. I knew when I bought that car in 2007 that I would sell it for something sportier. I had my eyes on a new M4 but the wait and the markup over MSRP is more than I'm willing to pay. Besides, I've always wanted a Porsche anyway.

A new Porsche would be nice but again, more than I want to spend. I've started a little research and checking out local dealers to see what they have used on the lot. My closest dealer didn't have any 997 manual gearbox but did have a 996 4S, 2004. I've read about IMS and RMS issues along with 2nd gear pop outs. This particular car had the IMS upgrade performed. It has about 58K miles and the dealer price is $43K. Does that seem a little too high for a non-navigation manual 996 with full leather, sport exhaust and BOSE sound package? KBB list that car at $43K exactly but Edmunds and NADA has it for mid $30K at best. I know there's a lot of debate over headlight and body shape with the 996 but I kind of like the way it looks. I do agree that the 997 looks better from the front but the wide body rear of the 996, 4S looks nice. I'm in no hurry so I can certainly wait for the right car it's just I'm not sure if a 996 or 997 is the right car for me. Ideally, I would want the S version of either car. Also nagging me is do I really need a 4WD car and isn't that more maintenance and possibly more things that could go wrong? Any help, thoughts, suggestions from you guys would be much appreciated.

Thanks

[scottmandue]

I also wish for a 996, like you we seem to be in the minority of actually liking the 996, but that is okay because it drives the prices down. Unfortunately I just bought a Miata and need to hold onto it for a while before I can justify upgrading to a 996.

This thread might help with your search:

The Affordable 996 Thread

[BReif61]

That 4S is overpriced. Some people will say that I'm cheap, or you're paying for low miles, but I say that's bull. $43k is Turbo money.

That said, the AWD system is very passive on the 996/997. The 4S has the Turbo widebody, so SOME suspension parts will cost a little more than a narrow body C2/C4.

My personal opinion is that the Carrera4S is the best balance of looks/performance/maintenance for a DAILY driver 996. (Disclaimer: I had an '02 C4S as my DD). If I could have found a 997 in my price range, I would have pursued that avenue.

Honestly, you cannot go wrong either way. The IMS issue affects ALL pre-DI engines, albeit at a VERY VERY low rate. The IMS issue has been greatly exaggerated by the internet.

[jorian]

You need a 4WD car in the Bay Area? Your current 350 id RWD no? I live in Vancouver and daily my 997S. Other than heading up a snow covered mountain my car handles 4 seasons without issue. After having driven both I can say that the 997S is better than the 4S you are considering in every way and can be had for the same money or less.

[rattlsnak]

Originally Posted by BReif61

That 4S is overpriced. Some people will say that I'm cheap, or you're paying for low miles, but I say that's bull. $43k is Turbo money.

low $30's is turbo money..

[Scott Douglas]

I'd recommend you watch the show they had on Discovery the other night, 50 Years of Porsche.
I found the commentators discussion of the differences between 996 and 997's interesting.
It might help you make up your mind.

[hhackma]

+1

[onewhippedpuppy]

That's a low $30k range car, tops. Prices in the $40k range will easily buy you a 997S or 996TT. Otherwise the 996 or 997 make fantastic no compromise daily drivers, do not hesitate.

[jdlowery]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

low $30's is turbo money..

Where are you guys finding 996 Turbos for low $30's?

[jdlowery]

Originally Posted by jorian

You need a 4WD car in the Bay Area? Your current 350 id RWD no? I live in Vancouver and daily my 997S. Other than heading up a snow covered mountain my car handles 4 seasons without issue. After having driven both I can say that the 997S is better than the 4S you are considering in every way and can be had for the same money or less.

You're absolutely right. I don't think I need an AWD in the bay. Though I thought the purpose of the AWD was to counteract the inherent over steer in 911s. My main concern would be the additional maintenance if any.

[speeder]

I wish I could have made my 996 oversteer. It would have been fun.

The handling on modern Porsches is so perfect and safe, it's incredible. My only complaint, if you can call it one, is that some of the old sphincter-tightening excitement is gone.

[porsche4life]

It's still there. You just have to push a helluva lot harder to get there.

[KNS]

I think the 996 and 997 will come into their own and hve a much broader acceptance. As the air cooled models disappear off the roads, one seeking the 911 driving experience (albiet a cushier, modern experience) will have no other choice but a water cooled model. I'm sure the day will come when I move into one and I have zero interest in a 991 - too far removed from the original 911 (in my opinion).

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by jdlowery

Where are you guys finding 996 Turbos for low $30's?

They are out there, check the "Affordable 996" thread. I got close to buying a 2002 996TT with an OEM GT2 aero package and about 40k miles for $34k last fall, then chickened out.

Originally Posted by jdlowery

You're absolutely right. I don't think I need an AWD in the bay. Though I thought the purpose of the AWD was to counteract the inherent over steer in 911s. My main concern would be the additional maintenance if any.

I've never driven a C4S, but most guys who own them consider the AWD system as a benefit in the dry. They are heavier than a C2 but can out-corner them based on the test results that I've seen. Plus they have that nice round ass.

Worst case you can always unbolt the driveshafts and transfer case to make your own C2S. It's an easy and popular mod, especially with the TT guys who are trying to shed weight.

Originally Posted by KNS

I think the 996 and 997 will come into their own and hve a much broader acceptance. As the air cooled models disappear off the roads, one seeking the 911 driving experience (albiet a cushier, modern experience) will have no other choice but a water cooled model. I'm sure the day will come when I move into one and I have zero interest in a 991 - too far removed from the original 911 (in my opinion).

Amend that statement to "As the air cooled models are too expensive to actually drive". Plus, the water pumpers are actually usable as a daily driver. Anyone interested in the 991 needs to watch the video of removing the rear bumper to access the air filter. No thanks, I'll stick with the relative simplicity of the 996/997, which appear to be the last DIY friendly 911.

[KNS]

"Too expensive to own and actually drive". I'll go along with that. As Pete Stout mentioned in Panorama, they're less interesting when the price gets too high. I'd agree

[onewhippedpuppy]

At some point it's a big risk to do anything but polish it in the garage. Sad but true because they are great to drive.

[Steve Carlton]

Jim- if you find something, I'd suggest having RMG Enterprises in Sunnyvale do the PPI. They might even know of some good cars for sale. Personally, I think paying top-dollar for a top car is money well spent. Note- I think the 996TT is immune from the IMS problem.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

At some point it's a big risk to do anything but polish it in the garage. Sad but true because they are great to drive.

Yep

[jdlowery]

Here's an update to my post. Went in to test drive the 996 C4S. I also wanted to test drive a 997 just to have something to compare. Loved the feel of the C4S; nice and low and gripped the road well. The sound was great. Manual shifter throw was maybe a little long but I hear there is a short shift kit from Porsche. Drove a 997 C2. Unfortunately, there were no 997 C4S or C2S on the lot. Worst of all, the 997 was an automatic tiptronic. It kind of felt like I was riding much higher than the C4S. Why on earth would anyone want an automatic 911? The 997 had more creature comforts (navigation, phone integration, etc...). If I had to decide between the two it would be the 996. However, the comparison was probably not fair.

As far as pricing, we didn't talk a lot about numbers but I let my sales guy know that the 996 is probably in the $33-$35K range and I would probably need $15K for my Lexus if I was to do a trade-in. He wanted to do a deal today but I still need to look and research some more. The 996 C4S was pretty sweet though.

[jdlowery]

I have another question for guys. Would you pay for an independent PPI when buying a used Porsche from a dealer or is this just when doing a private party purchase?