How Do I Get Into These Messes

[5String43]

Sorry, but I think you owe him $1,000.

^ This. OP says you agreed to the deal. No?

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Dansvan

A man is only as good as his word? A mans word is his bond? "Ok" means something different now? Just throwing stuff out there. Sad to see how far we've fallen.

Whatever happened to at least a hand shake?

I can't believe some of you are siding with a dishonest salesman!

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by 5String43

^ This. OP says you agreed to the deal. No?

The OP says to call him back after 4:30. He owes him nothing, legally or technically.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by 5String43

^ This. OP says you agreed to the deal. No?

I can't believe how many here think Patrick is obligated to pay.

Go back and read post #1.

Patrick told the guy to call him at 4:30pm.

No where did he agree to have the work done.

"Call me at 4:30 and we'll talk then."

I don't know how you could interpret that as "Go ahead and do the work."

The two statements aren't even vaguely close to the same thing.

The sealing contractor proceeded with the job WITHOUT consent and thus is SOL, IMO.

What happens next is another topic.

[Rick Lee]

He's not obligated to pay at all. But if, in the back of his mind, he was willing to pay up to, say, $500 and the idiot did good work, I'd pay the $500 just to keep from getting vandalized or harassed later.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Dansvan

A man is only as good as his word? A mans word is his bond? "Ok" means something different now? Just throwing stuff out there. Sad to see how far we've fallen.

I understand what you are saying, but this "transaction" was so sketchy that I don't even know the guy's name. I don't think "Sounds OK" from a guy laying on his back under a truck is a contract. Some of it is on my shoulders. I wanted to get him out of my hair while I was working and get him to call me at 4:30. In no way did I believe he was going to come back at 5:30 and do the job without having enough contact with me to even tell me his name.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

He's not obligated to pay at all. But if, in the back of his mind, he was willing to pay up to, say, $500 and the idiot did good work, I'd pay the $500 just to keep from getting vandalized or harassed later.

Yes, I agree with this, Rick.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I understand what you are saying, but this "transaction" was so sketchy that I don't even know the guy's name. I don't think "Sounds OK" from a guy laying on his back under a truck is a contract. Some of it is on my shoulders. I wanted to get him out of my hair while I was working and get him to call me at 4:30. In no way did I believe he was going to come back at 5:30 and do the job without having enough contact with me to even tell me his name.

FWIW just based on your account - the majority of blame goes to the sealing contractor, Patrick.

I'm sure you will be able to work something out.

A good reminder for us all to be very firm when these types of circumstances arise.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Baz

I can't believe how many here think Patrick is obligated to pay.

Go back and read post #1.

Patrick told the guy to call him at 4:30pm.

No where did he agree to have the work done.

"Call me at 4:30 and we'll talk then."

I don't know how you could interpret that as "Go ahead and do the work."

The two statements aren't even vaguely close to the same thing.

The sealing contractor proceeded with the job WITHOUT consent and thus is SOL, IMO.

What happens next is another topic.

Here is what the OP stated:

Seller: "We can come back and do it this afternoon for $1000."
Buyer: "sounds OK, call me at 4:30".

I wasn't there, I don't know what the seller heard, I don't know what the intention of the OP was. Maybe it was 'okay, call me to arrange a time' or 'okay, call me to finish negotiations'.

To me if I offer someone a price and they say 'sounds okay' I assume he has agreed. The seller was shady and anything short of 'get the eff out of my shop' would likely have been taken as approval.

The question was 'How do I get into these messes?', the answer is 'by not being clear in your reply to a shyster'. Obviously the OP thought he has made some sort of commitment or he wouldn't have waited around to hear from the guy at 4:30.

I don't think he has a legal obligation to pay; I do think he might have a moral obligation. And I will add this: only a real **** would use the completed work as leverage to renegotiate the price. You owe him nothing, or you owe him $1,000.

[sc_rufctr]

Remind me never to negotiate while I'm working on a car.

But it does sound like this guy set you up.
Did he watch your business and wait for you to leave before sealing the Yard? I would bet that he did.

It all seems a bit "off" if you know what I mean.

So what I would do is sit the guy down and explain to him why you're only going to pay him $600. Get you old receipt handy from the last time it was done.
If he wants more or tries to BS you. Tell him to leave and as he's leaving tell him he'll be hearing from your lawyer.

It's your business! Your property! Your lively hood!

These guys are messing with that. Don't let them.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

So what I would do is sit the guy down and explain to him why you're only going to pay him $600. Get you old receipt handy from the last time it was done.
If he wants more or tries to BS you. Tell him to leave and as he's leaving tell him he'll be hearing from your lawyer.

This.
Take photos of his plates/person and have a witness hanging out.

Taken a different way, this UN-authorised work could also be construed as vandalism on a business...

[SiberianDVM]

The most important thing: Is this guy an Irish Traveller or not?

If he is, that sealer is almost gauranteed to peel up or wash away by next week.

Murphy Village, the home of the southern branch, is about 10 miles from me. They didn't get the money to build those mansions and buy those Jags by being honest, hard working types.

The best story I've heard to come out of Murphy Village lately was the wife who was convicted of fraud. She had been drawing SS diability for 20+ years for blindness. Of course, she had a valid driver's license the whole time.

[Bugsinrugs]

When he comes to collect tell him to you are too busy at the moment and to call you at 4:30.

[Mike80911]

I think unless you can keep an eye on your property 24hrs a day 7 days a week you might want to try to work something out. Maybe haggle the price and as said before try to cut him down to $500. If you totally stiff him he might take it out on some of your belongings and it will end up costing you more in the end. Sometimes you just have to spend some money to learn a valuable lesson. Just my 2 cents

[9dreizig]

sub'ing ,, this is going to get interesting

[wdfifteen]

Well ...

I got to the office this morning and my tenant was here. As I was leaving Friday I had asked her if the saw someone on the parking lot to tell him to call me. She said two guys showed up about 5 minutes after I left, she told them to call, and he told her he lost my number. He left a message on voice mail 1 1/2 hrs later saying he was finished, so he had my number. He was avoiding me.
Guy shows up this morning to get paid. I told him he was supposed to call me at 4:30. He said he called five times and the call went right to voice mail. I reminded him my phone records missed calls just like everyone else's does. He tells me he had 10 guys out here and he couldn't afford to pay them to stand around while he talked on the phone. My tenant said she saw two two men here.
He wants $1000. I tell him I need a receipt with his company name address and tax ID. First he wants to know why I need his tax ID number and I tell him I have to report every expenditure over $600 to the IRS. He says, "I'm only cash. I don't do business that way." I told him, "I'm a legitimate business and I DO do business that way."
So now he says he'll take $600 cash. I told him if I give him cash it will be $400 and he'll get the H E L L out of town because I'm going straight to the police to report him.
I only hope the job he did lasts long enough to be worth $400. He said he put 110 gallons of sealer on it. I have no way of knowing how much he really used.

[SiberianDVM]

Oh, man. That sounds so Irish Traveler.

The new WalMart Superstore going up right across from Murphy Village thanks you.

[speeder]

Sounds like a gypsy. Is that what Irish Travelers are?

You handled it right. I'm too much of a hot-head for people like that, I would have told him to his face that he was a fking liar and a thief. It probably would have gone downhill from there and I would have shot him. Your result was better.

[speeder]

I hope you took cell phone pictures of his face and his license # or at least wrote it down.

[sammyg2]

Lots of people in this thread are suggesting that dishonesty is the best policy. No wonder this world is so effed up, too many people have zero morals or ethics.
My parents taught me the difference between right and wrong.

this guy offered to do the job for $1100, you said OK (verbal contract), he performed the work, you owe him the agreed upon amount.
He did nothing illegal or immoral or unethical. He did not CHEAT anyone. He offered to do some work for a negotiated price, and you agreed.
If you do not pay him the full amount then YOU will be the cheat.