Of course, Denis - your strongly held opinion of your actions trumps my university studies. Again, show me the studies, the data that back you up. I suspect you cannot.

This is certainly no "cause celebre" of any kind for me. I have, however, been accused of several things, been accused of being several things, by a few guys on this thread. Including you. Yet none of you can refute the data I presented. So, since you cannot, I'm an "angry little man", an "ass hole", and other such endearing names.

You claimed a page or two back that I had "lost" some aspect of this argument and had to resort to throwing texting into the mix to bolster my position. While I did include texting in my list of links because I believe it to be relevant, I went on to demonstrate that even when removing it from the mix entirely, cell phone driving has proven to be exceedingly dangerous. Even your touted hands-free devices. No response from you (or the others) beyond insults and accusations - you have yet to address the data. Except with your heartfelt opinion, stated above.

Bottom line is, regardless of your opinions, this has proven to be a very dangerous activity. It astonishes me to see the lengths to which otherwise intelligent, level headed, respectable people (oh, and you too) will go to justify this, and just how angry and spiteful they get when called on it. I would have never thought a few of you capable of this. Don't worry, though, Denis - I always knew you were. And you didn't let me down. Never have...

LMAO, Jeff, you are the master deflector of PPOT. Dude, seriously, get over yourself.

Oh no, someone on the internet doesn't like me.

I'm crushed.

I hope you aren't referring to me - there is no one on this forum that I can honestly say I dislike. I hope I didn't give that impression. No matter how "lively" our discussions get, I certainly hold nothing against anyone. I would happily have a beer with anyone on here, and be proud to call them a "friend". Yes, even you, Denis. You may not be the sharpest guy on this forum, but you seem like a good enough guy even so. No hard feelings.

YOU might disagree with it, but the science doesn't. It's been proven that talking/texting on your cell phone is just as bad as driving drunk; and also, driving under extreme exhaustion is WORSE than driving drunk.

Furthermore, it's been proven that hands-free devices do not reduce the risk. The part of your brain that is focused on the conversation is the part of your brain that's supposed to be focused on your driving. Yes, certain individuals can handle it with no problem, but most cannot.

Why, thanks Jeff. I know I'm not the smartest guy here but I'm pretty sure that I'm smarter than you. :)

First beer is on me when we meet.

Make sure you guys both go for a drive afterwards. Maybe while talking on your cell phone.SmileWavy

But....This thread was not about the dangers of cell phone use while driving. It was SWITCHED to the dangers of cell phone use.

The thread was about Jeff's adolescent behavior while riding his motorcycle in traffic that started because of his perception of a neighboring driver wearing sunglasses and holding a phone.

My comments were not in defense of anything related to phone use. Rather, they were directly related to self - described stupidity by someone who had the experience and capacity to know better.

So Jeff, please stay on topic and don't again twist the argument to somehow support the intelligence of your self described riding behavior. Thanks!

Get a room!!!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...eys/spankA.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/visslaan.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...leys/pint1.gif

I thought it was about the dangers of wearing white sunglasses. If I don't like the way you look, you will pay dearly. More of a public service announcement than anything else.

I took the sunglasses to be an incidental finding, the cell phone, which has been shown to adversely impact your driving as badly as alcohol, was the central consideration. I usually GTF away from them with alacrity if I am fortunate enough to spot them prior to their unexpected maneuver. This song starts playing in my head whenever I see a person driving and talking on their phone


kind of NSFW I suppose

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/kdemFfbS5H0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

People that are drunk think they are driving cool generally, right up until they kill somebody.

You are absolutely right, Mike. It started with me admitting to some pretty juvenile behavior - right in the title, as a matter of fact. It went from there to traditional PPOT pig pile, lambasting me for my behavior. I deserved every last bit of it. No problem there at all. I pointed out that I have a real problem with selfish drivers endangering the rest of us by yammering on their cell phones, so when I saw one, I took the opportunity to mess with him. Thin justification for my behavior, certainly.

Where it went off the rails was when a few started justifying their use of a cell phone while driving, claiming it was not dangerous and thereby implying I should not have taken exception to it. I responded to that, not to justify my actions, but to point out just how wrong (and selfish) they are. My statements were in no way meant to "support the intelligence" of my behavior; they were made in an effort to refute their justifications of their dangerous behavior.

Naw, Denis will be in his car, I'll be on my bike...

We all know Denis hasn't been firing on all lobes for some time now, so he is probably right in that it doesn't affect him. Like a Top Fuel car dropping cylinders on a run, it really doesn't slow him down much, and it's hard to tell from the outside. It's only when the car in the other lane runs normally and finishes on all cylinders, do the deficiencies of the disabled car become obvious.

Listen, Jeff is a real asset to the Technical board especially with respect to MFI. And he was very generous with his time and information emailing me years ago when I hoped to replicate his efforts, and I greatly appreciate that. But this OP and a few other posts are F'ed up on so many levels.

And let's be clear. It was never about a guy talking on a cell phone.

It was about a guy who probably didn't work hard for what he has and sports a douche bag look.

I run into plenty of people who are texting while driving, swerving, sitting at stop lights for 10 seconds after the light turns green. And on many occasions I've sped up and honked and held my phone up and shook my head, I've even went up to a car at a stop light and asked a girl to stop using her phone, but I've never wanted to annoy someone or kick in their doors or smash their mirrors, even when I was riding. You'd be surprised at the number of times people wave and are nice and put the phone down. The girl at the stop light said she was sorry.

Would have been easier and probably more effective for Jeff to get the guy's attention, hold his hand up to his ear and shake his head. if the guy proceeds in an FU manner, hey, the door's open, all bets are off. But you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Want to stop bad or dangerous behavior? Be kind about it, no one responds well to anger.

I'm not sure that's much to be proud of...

It was all about the phone. I could care less how he looks. But, what do I know?

Apparently, this issue has been covered on here before...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/571719-whats-guys-wearing-white-sunglasses.html

.

I certainly don't disagree here, but when you consider the potential consequences of distracted driving, it's hard not to get miffed. I think folks who only ride in automobiles are isolated from dangers of driving. 17 airbags, lots of strong metal, a 14 star crash rating, and soft upholstery tend to promote an illusion of safety. Add the cell phone, and I can see how one would be a real risk on the highways. It's not just my opinion. Jeff already posted the studies.

Now, does stupid behavior justify violence in return. Well, that's debatable, but when faced with a potentially fatal outcome, I can certainly understand how one would lash out.

I'm surprised some here would say driving while on the phone is acceptable behavior.

Jurgen SmileWavy

Yup, this.^^^^

A very masterful attempt at deflection. Thread starts off as "I can be so juvenile at times...", gives a description of the true victim as a GQ douchebag with white sunglasses, pats himself on the back for his cleverness, then goes on a 9-page rant against the evils of talking on one's cellphone while driving.... in a weak sauce attempt to defend himself for his self-admitted "juvenile" actions.

Nice try though, Shapiro. BTW, are you related to the Chelan Higgins?

No dog in the hunt. Just thought this was interesting: SmileWavy

Here is a very interesting study of cell phone use while driving. It also has data regarding driving while intoxicated. Pay special attention to the Appendices.

http://cellphonefreedriving.ca/media/harvard.pdf

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Back OT here....fwiw while I don't totally agree with Jeff's MO, I totally take his side on cell phone use while driving.

A case in point.....last night while heading home from work I came to a four way stop and, as there were no vehicles at the other intersections, after stopping I proceeded through. Just as I was about half way through, this woman on my right (yes, yapping on her cp!) didn't even look my way and stormed through turning into my lane. I had just enough time to screech to a stop and missed hitting her on the driver's side by maybe a foot! I leaned on my horn but she was oblivious to all that had happened.

I was behind her for about two blocks and she is weaving all over the place, still yapping away on her phone. About a block later she proceeds to turn right and as I pass her on the left I give her a horn blast. She looks over her left shoulder while holding the phone with her left hand and, in mid turn, she leans over, takes her right hand off the steering wheel and flips me the bird....so she's now driving with no hands on the wheel and, in the process almost clips a cyclist in the opposite lane!

This person obviously has no respect or concern for the safety of others and is clearly an accident waiting to happen.....just WTF!:mad:

Pelicans we are above this.....

PLEASE, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCE, USE YOUR CELL PHONE OR TEXT WHILE OPERATING A MOTOR VEHICLE. IF IT RINGS AND YOU NEED TO ATTEND TO IT, PLEASE JUST PULL OVER WHEN SAFE TO DO SO!

Have a nice day and be safe out there guys!

A very masterful demonstration of sheer stupidity coupled with poor reading comprehension. You are way, way late to the party, moron. Did you even read this?:

If you did, why are you so incapable of understanding it? Do you wear white sunglasses or something?

How dare you make such a common sense suggestion on this forum. I made this very suggestion to one of our (formerly) well respected contributors, and one that is a motor officer at that - one that admits to cell phone use when driving. A guy who has undoubtedly responded to collisions resulting from cell phone use. His response? He got very angry, said some vile things about me, and left in a huff. A number of the other sooper jeenyuses that we are blessed with on this forum had similar reactions to any afront to the god-given right to yammer away on their cells while driving. You will never get through to any of these guys, nor will I.

Was this in Canada? If so, amazing.

I thought Canucks were perfect.

"No dog in the hunt"? Are you really going to say that? You are one of the worst offenders I know. We have discussed this many, many times, with you insisting that holding your phone in your hand, away from your head - so long as it is not up to your ear - is legal under Washington State's law. It's not. The only legal use under our state law is hands-free. Holding one in your hand, out in front of your face, is not "hands free".

We have even discussed the fact that any use of a cell while driving is dangerous, even if some use (hands free) is legal in Washington. You clearly do not care, as you have consistently and quite vehemently defended your "right" to do so. So please don't lie to these guys and tell them you "have no dog in this hunt".

Scooter, who funded that paper you linked, Verizon?

It did not include a number of journal articles I have read that compared driving drunk and driving with a cellphone and noted a similar, deleterious effect on driving ability.

Jeff, I don't know what is up your butt, but you need to stop it. I merely posted a link to an interesting article. I don't appreciate being called a liar. I demand a public apology here and now! I don't have a dog in the hunt. My discussions with you have merely been the statement of the law. I can care less what opinion people have. The law is the law.

Washington law is the following RCW. It allows a cell phone to be used in speaker phone mode, which means you can in fact hold the phone in one hand and talk on the speaker phone away from your ear.

RCW 46.61.667
Using a wireless communications device or hand-held mobile telephone while driving.

(1)(a) Except as provided in subsections (2)(a) and (3)(a) of this section, a person operating a moving motor vehicle while holding a wireless communications device to his or her ear is guilty of a traffic infraction.

(b) Except as provided in subsection (2)(b) and (3)(b) of this section, a person driving a commercial motor vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.25.010, including while temporarily stationary because of traffic, a traffic control device, or other momentary delays, while using a hand-held mobile telephone is guilty of a traffic infraction. For purposes of this subsection, "driving" does not include operating a commercial motor vehicle with or without the motor running when the driver has moved the vehicle to the side of, or off, a highway and has stopped in a location where the vehicle can safely remain stationary.

(2)(a) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not apply to a person operating:

(i) An authorized emergency vehicle, or a tow truck responding to a disabled vehicle;

(ii) A moving motor vehicle using a wireless communications device in hands-free mode;

(iii) A moving motor vehicle using a hand-held wireless communications device to:

(A) Report illegal activity;

(B) Summon medical or other emergency help;

(C) Prevent injury to a person or property; or

(D) Relay information that is time sensitive between a transit or for-hire operator and that operator's dispatcher, in which the device is permanently affixed to the vehicle; or

(iv) A moving motor vehicle while using a hearing aid.

(b) Subsection (1)(b) of this section does not apply to a person operating a commercial motor vehicle:

(i) When necessary to communicate with law enforcement officials or other emergency services; or

(ii) Using a mobile telephone in hands-free mode.

(3)(a) Subsection (1)(a) of this section does not restrict the operation of an amateur radio station by a person who holds a valid amateur radio operator license issued by the federal communications commission.

(b) Subsection (1)(b) of this section does not restrict the operation of two-way or citizens band radio services.

(4) For purposes of this section, "hands-free mode" means the use of a wireless communications device with a speaker phone, headset, or earpiece.

(5) The state preempts the field of regulating the use of wireless communications devices in motor vehicles, and this section supersedes any local laws, ordinances, orders, rules, or regulations enacted by a political subdivision or municipality to regulate the use of wireless communications devices by the operator of a motor vehicle.

(6) Infractions that result from the use of a wireless communications device while operating a motor vehicle under subsection (1)(a) of this section shall not become part of the driver's record under RCW 46.52.101 and 46.52.120. Additionally, a finding that a person has committed a traffic infraction under subsection (1)(a) of this section shall not be made available to insurance companies or employers.

***Also, here is an interesting article from our local paper that supports my position on holding a cell phone and using it in speaker mode:
Answers to questions about cell phone and texting laws - seattlepi.com

so this means that sitting at a stop light its legal to use the phone?

(b) Except as provided in subsection (2)(b) and (3)(b) of this section, a person driving a commercial motor vehicle, as defined in RCW 46.25.010, including while temporarily stationary because of traffic, a traffic control device, or other momentary delays, while using a hand-held mobile telephone is guilty of a traffic infraction. For purposes of this subsection, "driving" does not include operating a commercial motor vehicle with or without the motor running when the driver has moved the vehicle to the side of, or off, a highway and has stopped in a location where the vehicle can safely remain stationary.

Reread bolded section to get the answer to your question.

touchy subject.

sheesh. hig's counters a motorist's slightly annoying social behavior with a slightly annoying social behavior and posts . . . where there becomes a pile-on/pile-up of slightly annoying social behavior to counter his slightly annoying social behavior of slightly annoying social behavior.

I'm beginning to become slightly annoyed. -- Don't you guys make me pull this car over! :cool:

Then that would mean the local FW cops need a class. I once saw a cop shine his spot light in such a way that it reflected off the rear view mirror and into the drivers face while he was sitting at a long light using the phone.

Good cop. If you understand what the bolded part reads, it is illegal to use your phone at a stop light. That cop could have given him a ticket, instead he annoyed him with his light, which I'm sure got the guy's attention.

Scooter, we have discussed this "to your ear" thing at length, and yes, it is a loophole in the current law that you lawyer types exploit. There is no functional difference between "to your ear" and a foot, or two feet from your head. Our State Senator Tracey Eide, who was instrumental in passing the current law, is seeking to close this loophole by strengthening this law. She is very clear, and most legislators agree with her, that the original intent - the spirit of this law - was to only allow truly hands-free devices, as the rest of the law clearly states. She wasn't counting on guys like you nit-picking this law to their own (and I'm sure some traffic lawyers' clients') benefits.

Regardless, it has been well established that even hands-free is every bit as dangerous as holding one in your hand. It's not the act of holding the device, it's the act of talking over it and listening to it that causes the distraction and, therefor, the danger. A few of us have linked studies that demonstrate this, if you care to read them. We have discussed this at length.

You know full well what is up my butt - you clowns who insist on yammering away on your phones while driving. I've made that clear not only on this thread, but to you a number of times. I simply have no patience for it. My ire has grown even worse over the course of the last year or so, almost having been hit by cellphone distracted drivers on a number of occasions since our accident. It simply has to stop. You guys have selfishly turned it into a war zone for the rest of us out there.

I stand by what I said - you clearly do have a dog in this hunt. You have very strong feelings about your right to continue to use your phone while driving under Washington State law, following the letter, rather than the spirit of the law. Please think of me, and my wife, out there somewhere on our bike as you continue to engage in, and justify this selfish, dangerous act. Or, better yet, please just knock it off.

"I Can Be So Juvenile At Times..."
 

QUOTE FROM MORON: "I Can Be So Juvenile At Times...."

Yes...it's obvious from the name of your original post...without reading any further.

Tell us "moron", what exactly brings out the hooligan in you?

Wow "moron", I guess being a "youngish 30-something" in a "shiny new BMW 3 series" and having a "GQ look going" with "white rimmed sunglasses" must have really hit a nerve with you. Otherwise, your quote probably would've been "some douchenozzle with a cell phone glued to his ear...".

Tell us, "moron": If he'd have been a yuppie in a Prius, would he still have brought out the "hooligan in you"? What if he was some techno-geek with an XR 650? Would you have mindfuk'd him on the freeway like you did, or would you have pulled over and bought him a double latte with extra whipped cream?

Yeah "moron", quite a few of us can't understand what got into you as well. But I think you pretty much explained it with the whole "GQ / BMW / white sunglasses" thing. Sounds pretty insecure, obviously having a Freudian moment there.

Hey "moron", this is classic textbook Passive/Aggressive behavior, usually exhibited by the biggest cowards/poosies. What's the matter, you couldn't text and paste all your cell phone stories to him to his face? Aren't you the self-proclaimed Martyr for this issue?

More examples of passive/aggressive wuss behavior from a "moron".

And the classic finishing touch, the smug self-satisfaction of the "moron" that has just completed the Hat Trick of douchebaggery. As the "moron" stated before, he probably never knew that the "moron" was even "messing with him". And yet, the "moron" still derived some sick kind of "high" from the whole ugly scene.

No, "moron", I'm not "late for the party". Actually, it looks like I arrived right on time. I've been watching this abortion of a thread (which you started, BTW) and have taken note of your behavior and the illogical rationalizations you have made to justify your stupid "moronic" behavior.

I have not taken any of your statements "out of context" as you have proclaimed earlier. THESE ARE YOUR STATEMENTS. THESE ARE YOUR QUOTES. If this were a day in court, you would have been laughed out of it about 8 or 9 pages ago.

Oh, and just a bit of advice: you really should be more careful about casting aspersions about people you don't know or have never met.

"Moron".

Oops my bad. You are correct.

I think if you go back through this thread, you will find this has all been covered.

You're like the stone cold sober guy who shows up at the party as it is winding down in the wee hours, except in reverse. You are the drunken idiot who shows up about the time everyone else has sobered up, and can't understand why no one wants to carouse with him anymore.

The words 'ad nauseam' come to mind... :rolleyes:

To summarize: If it's illegal where you are driving don't do it. If it is legal do it understanding that you need to be extra vigilant.

I love this thread,

only because it's brought the word

yammering

into most of my conversations for a few days.

It's a great word. Go get 'em, Higgins!

Been busy, only read page 10 of this. A few observations:

1) I just got home from driving 30 days in Europe, 2,600 miles in 9 countries. It that time, I only saw one person driving while talking on their cell. Lots of time on the Autobahn in Germany; they are the best drivers I've seen in my life.

2) Last year spent 5 weeks in Australia.......3,000 miles on a Motorcycle and 1,600 miles in a diesel Landcrusier: I saw exactly 2 people driving and talking on a cell. Both younger drivers in town.

We just don't taking the task of driving very seriously in this country.....It's a shame.....

Bob, great to see you chiming in. I well remember a story of yours from a few years ago when you were in Australia, and your host was driving. When his phone rang, he pulled over to answer it, kind of surprising you. His attitude was more or less "of course that is what you do". I hope I got that kind of right - I think that's how you explained it.

Anyhoo, I'm done yammering. We've gone full circle so many times I've gotten dizzy. You guys will just have to carry on (or, preferably not) yammering without me. See ya...