Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Miscellaneous and Off Topic Forums > Off Topic Discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,823
New Guitar Day! After a ten year wait, it's finally here

Ok, officially it was a few days ago...

About ten years ago, one of my OEM buyers and I agreed to a trade. A bunch of my parts for one of his guitars. This was a "Free Time" deal... as we had free time away from other orders, we'd do a bit of work one each others' stuff. We knew it would take a while.

It's a good thing I'm patient!

The guitar was finished almost exactly a year ago, but I found myself very busy and short on time to go get it from it's place in Victoria, BC, Canada. It was built by Heatley Guitars.

This weekend, a very short window of opportunity arose, and we took it.

Now, some here may know about CITES and all that, so let me tell you, I was scared as hell crossing back through the Canada/US border with it, afraid customs would take it, and I'd never see it again. If you don't know what CITES is, you'd better look it up before travelling with your axe. Basically, you need a passport for your guitar, and you'd better pray that they don't look at it funny. Lots of high profile seizures.

Well, here it is. The axe I waited ten years for. It's remarkable.

The first picture, taken by the builder after it was finished. The covered pickups were swapped for something I made special for myself.




__________________
'85 911. White - 53,000 miles bought 3-16-07. "Casper"
'88 924S. Blue - 120k miles bought with 105k miles.
'94 968 Coupe - White - 108,000 miles bought 9-28-17
'09 Cayman - Grey - bought 9-8-20
Old 07-22-2014, 11:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered
 
slodave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Encino Man
Posts: 22,394
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to slodave
Very nice, Wolfe. Congrats.
__________________
Make sure to check out my balls in the Pelican Parts Catalog! 917 inspired shift knobs.

'84 Targa - Arena Red - AX #104
'07 Toyota Camry Hybrid - Yes, I'm that guy...
'01 Toyota Corolla - Urban Camouflage - SOLD
Old 07-22-2014, 11:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Run smooth, run fast
 
Heel n Toe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 13,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod View Post
If you don't know what CITES is, you'd better look it up before travelling with your axe. Basically, you need a passport for your guitar, and you'd better pray that they don't look at it funny. Lots of high profile seizures.
Beautiful guitar.

Allow me to roll my eyes at that whole CITES deal; What is CITES? | CITES

Is there some way that guitars can get "pre-certified" or something so there's no worries at a border crossing?
__________________
- John
"We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline."
Old 07-22-2014, 11:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heel n Toe View Post
Beautiful guitar.

Allow me to roll my eyes at that whole CITES deal; What is CITES? | CITES

Is there some way that guitars can get "pre-certified" or something so there's no worries at a border crossing?
Yeah, there is. You need a passport for your guitar. In order to get one, you have to prove that the wood or inlays are not made from any banned materials, or were obtained pre-ban, legally. You must know the species of each wood, etc...
Lots of hoops to jump through.

Really messed up part about it? Lets say you take Grandma's 100 year old Brazillian rosewood dresser and make it into new guitar fretboard... Customs declares it illegal, new "product" Grammies 100 year old tortoiseshell combs? Nope, can't make them into new guitar picks. The 10,000 year old mammoth ivory you discovered in the tundra? Forget about making them into new guitar nuts...

Quote:

You Can't Take My Guitar! What Every Traveling Musician Should Know About CITES

By Dwight Worden

INTRODUCTION AND BACKGROUND
CITES is the acronym for the international treaty governing trade and transport of endangered species. The acronym stands for: Convention International on Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Flora and Fauna. What follows is a brief primer on what every traveling musician should know about this important international agreement and how it is implemented.

Protection of endangered species has become an important international priority over the past several decades as more and more species, both plant and animal, have come to face extinction or have become "endangered," "threatened" or "sensitive.” An important underlying premise of the CITES treaty, accurate or not, is that if trade and transport of the products and parts of protected endangered species are strictly controlled the killing, harming or "taking" of such species will be reduced. The thinking goes that, for example, fewer endangered sea turtles will be captured and fewer walrus killed if it is against the law to sell tortoise shell guitar picks and walrus nuts end pins.

The treaty is the result of a resolution adopted in 1973 at a meeting of the World Conservation Union (IUCN). As of a few years ago approximately 33,000 species of plants and animals are affected by the CITES Treaty. In practice, penalties and enforcement vary widely from country to country. An important aspect of the treaty is establishing management and scientific authorities to determine what materials to seize and what to do with the confiscated products.

The final text of the treaty was determined at a meeting of representatives of 80 countries in Washington, D.C., held on March 3, 1973. The final draft of the treaty was then made available for signature by countries wishing to join the program through December 31, 1974. On July 1, 1975 the treaty became legally in force after ratification and signature by the 10th signatory country. As of June 17, 2008, 173 Countries had become parties to the convention.

WHAT DOES THE TREATY COVER
The treaty applies to controlled flora and fauna, their export, re-export, import and introduction from the sea. There are three appendices to the treaty establishing a hierarchy of protection for threatened species of plants and animals. As of a few years ago these appendices list approximately 28,000 plant species and 5,000 animal species. Fortunately, very few are used in instrument building. Here's the overall breakdown of what is addressed in the appendices:

Appendix I: “Threatened with extinction, which may be affected by trade.”

Appendix II: Species “not necessarily now threatened with extinction” but “may become so unless trade in specimens of such species is subject to strict regulation.”

Appendix III: Species that are “subject to regulation within its jurisdiction for the purpose of preventing or restricting exploitation."

Here is what is covered in each appendix likely to relate to musical instruments:
Appendix I includes:

Brazilian Rosewood (Dalbergia nigra) – application date: 11/6/92

Mammoth ivory and elephant ivory – application date: 6/1/47

Tortoise shell from the Hawksbill turtle (Eretmochelys imbricata) – application date: 7/1/75

Appendix II includes:

Big leaf mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) – Honduran mahogany.

This only applies to export and import of raw wood, not completed instruments.

Appendix III includes:

South African abalone – Perlemoen – application date: 5/3/07

This is not used on American guitars but allows room for enforcement confusion. North American guitar makers use Mother of Pearl, pink, red or green abalone.

White abalone (Haliotis sorenseni) is not CITES listed but is listed in the US Federal statute called the Endangered Species Act and is subject to protection.

There are currently 173 country signatories to CITES. Reportedly, and perhaps not surprisingly, the strictest enforcement can be found in the U.S., Canada, European Union, Australia and Japan. Each of these countries has domestic laws in addition to, and stricter than, the basic CITES framework. In the USA the Federal Endangered Species Act applies, and some states, like California, also have applicable state laws protecting endangered species. So, for example, Brazilian rosewood is covered and restricted by the Endangered Species Act as well as by CITES.

TRAVELING WITH YOUR INSTRUMENT
To travel with an instrument with any of the controlled materials, you will need an export permit from the U.S. issued by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) which has jurisdiction under CITES and under the federal Endangered Species Act. Visit: Untitled Document. And, you will need an import permit from the destination country. An export permit is granted if “a scientific authority of the state of export has advised that such export will not be detrimental to the survival of that species” and the material “was not obtained in contravention of the laws of that state for the protection of fauna and flora.” For the import permit, you will need proof that you are not importing the materials “primarily for commercial purposes.”

EXEMPTIONS AND EXCEPTIONS
There are seven exemptions to the CITES rules. Most do not apply to musical instruments. There is one important exemption, however, that may apply: your instrument may be exempt if you can demonstrate that it was legally acquired before the materials were listed by CITES. To qualify for this exemption, you will need some form of written certification as to what materials comprise your instrument, when they were acquired and manufactured into your instrument.

There have been reports, however, that materials listed under Appendix I (the most protected materials) might be confiscated by zealous enforcement agents when you pass through customs even if you qualify for the exemption, forcing follow-up actions on your part to reclaim your wrongfully seized instrument. USFWS border agents have an identification guide /manual that they use to aid them in identifying protected endangered species. The first photo on their Timber Import / Export Requirements fact sheet is a shot of the back of a Brazilian rosewood guitar. The same photo appears on the cover for their Antiques Fact Sheets.

These agents are trained to look for suspicious materials and to confiscate instruments that appear to contain them. Given that it is often hard to tell the difference between, for example, Indian rosewood and Brazilian rosewood, the types of abalone or tortoise shell, or sometimes even the difference between ivory and quality plastic, or to distinguish the different types of mahogany, it is easy to imagine how confusion and mistakes can be made as one passes through customs in a busy port of entry. Unfortunately, such mistakes can result in the confiscation of your instrument. Be forewarned and be prepared, come with complete and definitive documentation to prove your claim of exemption.

In order to qualify for the "predate" exemption from USA CITES regulations, an instrument needs documentation (to the satisfaction of the USFWS) establishing that it predates the application dates of the controlled materials listed above. Check with the country of destination for any additional regulations or documentation that they may require. So, for example, if your instrument has ivory on it and was built before 1947 and you can document that fact, you should qualify for the exemption. The critical dates are determined by the manufacture of the materials, not the date of the protected material itself.
__________________
'85 911. White - 53,000 miles bought 3-16-07. "Casper"
'88 924S. Blue - 120k miles bought with 105k miles.
'94 968 Coupe - White - 108,000 miles bought 9-28-17
'09 Cayman - Grey - bought 9-8-20
Old 07-22-2014, 11:45 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,823
hmmm... it goes on...

Quote:
For example, if the replacement nut on your guitar was fashioned from fossilized mammoth ivory (more than 10,000 years old) but was formed into a guitar nut in January of 1993, for CITES purposes the nut was built in 1993 and is therefore a controlled material. You're exemption is not dependent upon, in this case, your certifying the age of the mammoth ivory. Rather, you must certify that the protected material was "manufactured" into your instrument before the cutoff date. If your instrument has a serial number you may want to check with its manufacturer to see if they can assist you in providing documentation to qualify for the exemption.

Border agents have broad authority to seize and confiscate whatever they suspect to be covered by the Endangered Species Act or CITES. While some such agents may have a pretty good understanding of musical instruments, some may not. Remember, these agents are looking at everything from rhino horn aphrodisiac, to leopard skin rugs, to old Martin guitars. Whether or not you are allowed to pass through customs with your instrument may well depend upon the quality of your documentation and on how well you can explain and verify what your instrument is made of and when its various components were manufactured. If you are going to travel outside the US with an instrument that has any of the listed materials, it is recommended that you contact the USFWS for advice and direction before you go.

The U.S. government has reserved the right to seize musical instruments that it suspects do not comply with CITES or the Endangered Species Act. Importantly, the general rule is that once an agent seizes your instrument, you have to prove that the governmental seizure was improper in order to get it back. This can be difficult or impossible to do, particularly without the instrument! So, it is recommended that you have your paperwork in order before you go.

Also, photo document your instrument including all its component parts with close-up pictures. This is a good idea for insurance purposes in any event, or for recovering it if it is stolen, and can be critical in reclaiming an instrument improperly seized by customs. Remember, as well, that there is no procedure for a retroactive permit. If the government confiscates your instrument on reasonable grounds and you are without the proper paperwork, you are considered to have violated CITES and have no right to prove up the validity of your case with documentation after-the-fact.

In addition, there are only 14 ports of entry to the U.S. authorized to handle CITES imports and exports. If you are traveling to or from the U.S. with an instrument with controlled materials, be sure to exit and return through one of these ports of entry: Anchorage, Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Dallas-Fort Worth, Honolulu, Los Angeles, Miami, Newark-New York, New Orleans, Portland, San Francisco or Seattle.

There are reports of instruments that have been seized and confiscated, so we know this is happening. Likewise, it has been reported that some U.S. dealers have stopped shipping instruments out of the country. Others report they have travelled with their instruments without problems. If you do plan to travel out of the country, we recommend you leave that vintage guitar or other vintage instrument at home and travel with a less expensive and clearly permitted instrument. If you simply must take that vintage instrument, then be prepared. Contact the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service before you leave, obtain the necessary import and export permits, and if you believe you qualify for an exemption, be sure to have as much documentation and support for your exemption claim as possible.
__________________
'85 911. White - 53,000 miles bought 3-16-07. "Casper"
'88 924S. Blue - 120k miles bought with 105k miles.
'94 968 Coupe - White - 108,000 miles bought 9-28-17
'09 Cayman - Grey - bought 9-8-20
Old 07-22-2014, 11:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Kantry Member
 
oldE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: N.S. Can
Posts: 6,761
Yes it's pretty but:

This thread is useless without SOUND FILES!!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Les
__________________
Best
Les
My train of thought has been replaced by a bumper car.
Old 07-23-2014, 03:02 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
LWJ LWJ is online now
Registered
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Lake Oswego, OR
Posts: 6,037
Porn. Very lovely.
Old 07-23-2014, 04:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Double Trouble
 
targa911S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North of Pittsburgh
Posts: 11,704
so what happens to the confiscated instruments? Beautiful guitar!
__________________
I used to be addicted to the hokey pokey..........but I turned myself around..

75 914 1.8
2010 Cayenne base
Old 07-23-2014, 04:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered
 
craigster59's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Gilbert, Az
Posts: 21,638
Garage
Beautiful guitar Wolfe! So what would have triggered a CITES dilemna, is that Honduran mahogany or is the fretboard rosewood (looks ebony to me)?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"There is nothing to be learned from the second kick of a mule" - Mark Twain
Old 07-23-2014, 05:16 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered
 
Cajundaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Southern Idaho
Posts: 5,249
Garage
Nice axe Wolfe, glad you got it home safely.
__________________
2009 Cayman PDK
With a few tweaks
Old 07-23-2014, 06:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
least common denominator
 
scottmandue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: San Pedro,CA
Posts: 22,506
Wow... just wow...
__________________
Gary Fisher 29er
2019 Kia Stinger 2.0t gone
1995 Miata Sold
1984 944 Sold
I am not lost for I know where I am, however where I am is lost. - Winnie the poo.
Old 07-23-2014, 06:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by targa911S View Post
so what happens to the confiscated instruments? Beautiful guitar!
You never see them again. They are used as "educational material" by the gubment. No doubt, "educational material" means "given to border agents to learn an intsrument"



Quote:
Originally Posted by craigster59 View Post
Beautiful guitar Wolfe! So what would have triggered a CITES dilemna, is that Honduran mahogany or is the fretboard rosewood (looks ebony to me)?
Rosewood. And Honduras mahogany. And they probably would have freaked out over the inlays too.. I'm pretty sure the headstock script is Abalone, which they've been freaking out about because there's no way to tell where it comes from.
__________________
'85 911. White - 53,000 miles bought 3-16-07. "Casper"
'88 924S. Blue - 120k miles bought with 105k miles.
'94 968 Coupe - White - 108,000 miles bought 9-28-17
'09 Cayman - Grey - bought 9-8-20
Old 07-23-2014, 10:28 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
B58/732
 
BlueSkyJaunte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Hot as Hell, AZ
Posts: 12,313
That thing is gorgeous. A nice, subtle, tasteful burst too.

Use it in good health!
__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
I don't always talk to vegetarians--but when I do, it's with a mouthful of bacon.
Old 07-23-2014, 11:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Ubi bene ibi patria
 
Hawkeye's-911T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: For the most part, in my garage.
Posts: 2,520
Garage

Man I'm so jealous-envious - Congrats Wolfe
Cheers
JB
__________________
“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not - both are equally terrifying” ― Arthur C. Clarke
Old 07-23-2014, 11:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 5,823
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldE View Post
Yes it's pretty but:

This thread is useless without SOUND FILES!!!!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Les
I really like Jeff Beck's version of "Over the Rainbow" so I tinker with it sometimes, even though it comes nowhere near Beck.
here ya go..

__________________
'85 911. White - 53,000 miles bought 3-16-07. "Casper"
'88 924S. Blue - 120k miles bought with 105k miles.
'94 968 Coupe - White - 108,000 miles bought 9-28-17
'09 Cayman - Grey - bought 9-8-20
Old 07-23-2014, 03:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
I'm with Bill
 
Rick V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Scottsville Va
Posts: 24,186
Where is the like button?

__________________
Electrical problems on a pick-up will do that to a guy- 1990C4S
Old 07-23-2014, 03:55 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Reply


 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:44 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.