Police Accidentaly Shoot and Kill Hostage

[Mike80911]

Where is the outrage? The looting? The rioting? Why isn't Reverend Al leading a march somewhere? Where are all of the civic minded leaders? I guess when the cops shoot an unarmed innocent white man no one cares.


Aspiring TV producer, who had worked for 'Tosh.O,' accidentally killed by police | Fox News

[stealthn]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

Where is the outrage? The looting? The rioting? Why isn't Reverend Al leading a march somewhere? Where are all of the civic minded leaders? I guess when the cops shoot an unarmed innocent white man no one cares.


Aspiring TV producer, who had worked for 'Tosh.O,' accidentally killed by police | Fox News

Old incident but couldn't agree more, was the officer Black? Regardless to shoot the victim....so sad

[Don Ro]

""Taking the life of an innocent person is a police officer's greatest nightmare," Interim Los Angeles County Sheriff John Scott said Thursday at a news conference."
.
That's so good to hear.

[speeder]

That happened a long time ago.

Note to anyone in a similar situation: If you are a hostage in an apartment with a murderer and the cops are outside with guns trained on the door, do not run out the door making strange motions towards the other victim. Maybe put your hands up and yell, "I'm the hostage", or something.

I feel sorry for the deputy on this one.

[jyl]

These events don't become flashpoints in isolation. They become flashpoints because they are perceived to be part of a pattern.

When a unarmed young black man is shot dead by a police officer, that alone isn't a flashpoint. But when dozens or hundreds of unarmed young black men are shot dead by police every year for years and years, then at some point the next one becomes a flashpoint. If not Michael Brown, it would have been another one.

If police were gunning down white male hostages every week or every month, for years and decades, then there might be the "outrage" you want. But they aren't, so it is just a tragic, bizarre, and isolated accident.

The fact that you, the OP, don't grasp the difference shows how little you understand the emotions and anger surrounding the Brown shooting.

[berettafan]

Sorry but the punks getting shot by cops by and large are not 'men'.

[Mike80911]

Originally Posted by jyl

These events don't become flashpoints in isolation. They become flashpoints because they are perceived to be part of a pattern.

When a unarmed young black man is shot dead by a police officer, that alone isn't a flashpoint. But when dozens or hundreds of unarmed young black men are shot dead by police every year for years and years, then at some point the next one becomes a flashpoint. If not Michael Brown, it would have been another one.

If police were gunning down white male hostages every week or every month, for years and decades, then there might be the "outrage" you want. But they aren't, so it is just a tragic, bizarre, and isolated accident.

The fact that you, the OP, don't grasp the difference shows how little you understand the emotions and anger surrounding the Brown shooting.

As a retired Police Officer I understand very well the difference in these two situations. In the case I listed an innocent man was gunned down because someone was fast to pull a trigger. In the Brown case a Police Officer was being attacked by someone twice his size that had just robbed a store and the officer defended himself using his last resort. Do you see the difference? Have there been shootings involving both races that I have sat and wondered what could have caused this yes but the Brown case is not one of them. I have been in that situation before and luckily in NYC help is on the scene in seconds because there are over 35,000 police officers here. When you work in a small police force help can be 10 minutes away by that time you can be dead.
There is no law or even a department policy that states an officer may only use deadly physical force when a subject is armed. There is however a long list of times when an officer may use it to prevent or terminate serious physical injury to themselves or others. I believe that when all of the facts of this case come out the officer will be proven to have acted within his justifiable rights.

[Mike80911]

Originally Posted by speeder

That happened a long time ago.

Note to anyone in a similar situation: If you are a hostage in an apartment with a murderer and the cops are outside with guns trained on the door, do not run out the door making strange motions towards the other victim. Maybe put your hands up and yell, "I'm the hostage", or something.

I feel sorry for the deputy on this one.

I know it was a while ago but I just thought it was relevant with all that is going on today.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by jyl

But when dozens or hundreds of unarmed young black men are shot dead by police every year for years and years, then at some point the next one becomes a flashpoint. If not Michael Brown, it would have been another one.

Do you have stats that show this?

Also - simply because a person is unarmed, that does not make them innocent of a crime, or incapable of causing harm (or having caused harm) to another person. That said, using a weapon to subdue a perp should be the LAST alternative, and not the first one: there are many other non-lethal options out there.

As the saying goes, if you have a hammer, everything is a nail...

Tough dilemma...

-Z

[berettafan]

Mike the same people that claim that thug POS shouldn't have been shot are home telling their kids not to get a reputation for being in trouble at school because the teacher will eventually just assume they are at fault when something happens.


Gotta love the double standard.

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

There is no law or even a department policy that states an officer may only use deadly physical force when a subject is armed. There is however a long list of times when an officer may use it to prevent or terminate serious physical injury to themselves or others. I believe that when all of the facts of this case come out the officer will be proven to have acted within his justifiable rights.

Based on this statement and also your tag line, it makes me wonder about the mindset of modern cops. Is it common for most police officers to constantly feel threatened? Based on my own experiences, I have noticed most cops to be even more on edge these days, even in situations where they aren't on duty, backyard party, etc..

So you know, Im not disrespecting you or your public service. Just trying to understand. I've been around cops who were good and bad. I'll assume you were a fine upstanding officer who helped people and made the world a little better.

[MRM]

Here is a good article on the two shootings.

The real reason conservatives should be outraged that police killed a white youth - The Week

No one knows how many black kids are shot by the cops each year because no one knows how many people cops kill each year. Cop shooting deaths are self-reported to the FBI and there is no standard for reporting them and no central reporting authority for tracking improper killing by cops. By the way, there are at least 400 people shot by cops per year according to the self-reported statistics. About 100-150 (with a high of about 200) cops are killed in the line of duty per year - half or more are typically killed in car accidents. I would be interested in the statistics of civilians killed by cops in car crashes, but strangely enough there's no central database for that statistic either.

The thing that is clear is that cops are trained to aggressively kill others to prevent even the possibility of danger to themselves and that they are willing to tolerate considerable civilian casualties to prevent even a single cop death.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by jyl

These events don't become flashpoints in isolation. They become flashpoints because they are perceived to be part of a pattern.

The fact that you, the OP, don't grasp the difference shows how little you understand the emotions and anger surrounding the Brown shooting.

These 2 statements make it seem that you believe the garbage the media pollutes our country with? If so, that's unfortunate.

There should be more anger surrounding the hostage guy, he was literally killed for no reason by assumption.

Mr Brown was assaulting a police officer, who has a broken face to prove it. Imagine having your face smashed in, while sitting in your car, by a guy 2x your size, (supposedly) trying to grab your sidearm. Would you let him kick your arse and possibly grab your gun and shoot you?

When weapons are involved, escalation of force can get serious, fast.

[Mike80911]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

Based on this statement and also your tag line, it makes me wonder about the mindset of modern cops. Is it common for most police officers to constantly feel threatened? Based on my own experiences, I have noticed most cops to be even more on edge these days, even in situations where they aren't on duty, backyard party, etc..

So you know, Im not disrespecting you or your public service. Just trying to understand. I've been around cops who were good and bad. I'll assume you were a fine upstanding officer who helped people and made the world a little better.

That is an excellent observation. I feel that you are correct in your feelings about cops being on edge. As you said even at social situations you can be made to feel uncomfortable. I never shot an innocent man yet I went to dinner with some friends the other night and spent an hour explaining the actions of a cop I do not even know. As we see from situations like the Brown case cops are immediately second guessed the minute anything like this happens. The facts of this case have not yet been released yet the officer has already been publicly convicted and sentenced. I would say that people rioting in the streets, throwing Molotov cocktails and shooting at police would cause any rational thinking person to assume an us against them mentality.
There are two things a Police Officer can do while at work they can do their job to the best of their ability or they can roll up the windows turn on the AC and ignore everything going on around them. Thankfully for most of us the choose to do their job.
When I became a Police Officer 30 years ago I actually felt good about what I was doing and really loved the job. I loved helping people in some of the darkest times of their lives and making those times a little easier for them. As time passed and public opinion changed I could not wait to retire.
When 9/11 happened everyone loved cops again. I remember every morning driving down the West Side Highway on my way to the WTC and people were lining the road and cheering as we drove by. I would be walking down the street and people would come up and thank me and want to take a picture with me. Thankfully those were some of my last days as a cop and I went out with fond memories of working with the public and not against them.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

As a retired Police Officer I understand very well the difference in these two situations. In the case I listed an innocent man was gunned down because someone was fast to pull a trigger. In the Brown case a Police Officer was being attacked by someone twice his size that had just robbed a store and the officer defended himself using his last resort. Do you see the difference? Have there been shootings involving both races that I have sat and wondered what could have caused this yes but the Brown case is not one of them. I have been in that situation before and luckily in NYC help is on the scene in seconds because there are over 35,000 police officers here. When you work in a small police force help can be 10 minutes away by that time you can be dead.
There is no law or even a department policy that states an officer may only use deadly physical force when a subject is armed. There is however a long list of times when an officer may use it to prevent or terminate serious physical injury to themselves or others. I believe that when all of the facts of this case come out the officer will be proven to have acted within his justifiable rights.

When the officer first encountered Brown and his friend he was, by the chiefs own admission, unaware of the cigar incident so we are looking at a jaywalking case. Two guys walking in the road and being asked to move to the sidewalk.

How that whole thing goes down starts with how the officer initiates contact and how the civilian reacts.

If the civilian responds in a conciliatory manner and follows instruction cop is in no danger.

If the civilian reacts in an aggressive manner then the cop should proceed with caution, not put himself in the situation that he did.

It's the cops job to manage the encounter.

In this instance it seems he managed it very poorly and put himself in a defensive position and it goes downhill from there.

Everyone has seen this one before. This trooper would have been well justified in hauling this assclown out of his car and sticking a boot on his neck as soon as assclown grabs the clipboard. But he does not, he manages the situation by letting the guy rant. Everyone goes home in one piece. 2:10 in is my favorite part.

[Don Ro]

That ranting guy didn't get laid the night before - I'd guess.
Either that or he gots hisself a butt rash. Dunno for sure.

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by Mike80911

When 9/11 happened everyone loved cops again. I remember every morning driving down the West Side Highway on my way to the WTC and people were lining the road and cheering as we drove by. I would be walking down the street and people would come up and thank me and want to take a picture with me. Thankfully those were some of my last days as a cop and I went out with fond memories of working with the public and not against them.

Its really sad that sense of unity went away. It was the same in Los Angeles.