Potential uncomfortable conversation and family fued

[stomachmonkey]

Way back in the day my wife played violin.

Her grandfather gave her his violin to play.

Eventually my wife lost interest but she still had an attachment to the instrument since it was a gift from Grandpa Eddie.

While she was away at college her cousin, her fathers brothers son, started taking up violin.

My MIL, intending to be helpful, offered her SIL the use of the violin. When my wife came home and found out she was pissed and has been for the last 30 years.

SIL, my wife's Aunt is a bit of an odd duck and a notorious cheapskate.

She had the violin appraised and promptly stuck it in a closet and bought her son a new one to use.

We can only assume it had some monetary value or SIL/Aunt had a reason to expect it's value to increase. Personally I feel at that point she should have said something like "do you know the value of this violin? are you sure about this" but she said nothing and it is what it is.

MIL's original gesture was never intended to be a gift but a loan. Admittedly she was not clear about that and it was never cleared up. That was a mistake.

Knowing my MIL I suspect she simply wanted to keep the peace and not make waves and I can appreciate that.

Grandpa Eddies violin is currently sitting in the basement at the cousins collecting dust. He has not touched it in 20 years.

As some of you know my daughter plays violin in addition to several other instruments but violin is her passion. Last year her orchestra sent in an audition for a national competition and were invited to compete which by itself was a huge honor. They drove 10 hours overnight on a bus, got off, were handed a piece of music they'd never seen and walked away with 1st place. This year she is Concert Master, 1st chair in her orchestra. That's a huge deal.

My daughter has expressed an intention to pursue a degree in music. She's serious about it. It's her passion.

Her Orchestra teacher wants her to upgrade her violin.

We will be seeing the cousin in 2 days at my nephews Bar Mitzvah.

I want to call him and ask him to bring the violin with him.

It would be something special for my daughter to play her great grandfathers / mothers violin.

However I know if he mentions it to his mother there will be an an issue.

So my plan is to call him last minute and ask him to bring it.

Basically remind him of my daughters accomplishments so far, reinforce that this is a life goal for her and how much it would mean to her to have an instrument with family history to play.

To be clear this is not about whether or not the thing has value. For all we know it could play like utter **** or she may not be comfortable with the instrument.

Instruments are like clothes, sometimes they don't fit the wearer.

It's about the connection.

Thoughts?

Should I just drop it and preserve the peace or......

[porsche4life]

Sounds like your plan is the best way to handle it. If he wants to give it to your daughter, who gives a rats behind if the aunt gets pissy about it?

[Gogar]

Heck yeah, get that violin out of storage. Anyone who thinks otherwise isn't thinking straight.

Being a musician myself I have seen lots of situations where a family member thought a certain instrument was priceless or worth a lot of money, and it's rarely the case.

If she has a kniption about it, then get it appraised again. If it's worth some real money that's great, but it would be a horrible thing to create family tension over a 20-year old fantasy value of something that's collecting dust.

Even if it is worth some money, it needs to get out of storage, and it makes all the sense in the world that your daughter should be able to play it, or at least be the new steward of it.

[aap1966]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

......my daughter plays violin in addition to several other instruments but violin is her passion. Last year her orchestra sent in an audition for a national competition and were invited to compete which by itself was a huge honor. They drove 10 hours overnight on a bus, got off, were handed a piece of music they'd never seen and walked away with 1st place. This year she is Concert Master, 1st chair in her orchestra. That's a huge deal. ...

Sure as heck is...........your daughter's abilities, discipline and determination puts any pettiness from others into the shade here......seems to me you're already so far out in front that nothing else matters.

[Cajundaddy]

As a musician it makes me sad when people hoard fine instruments and lock them away in the dark. They are meant to be played, maintained and heard by an audience. I am pretty sure Grandpa Eddie would agree. Getting cousin on board may be a bit delicate but if he hears her play, it may smooth the handoff.

[john70t]

It's either:
1). A singular person's monetary investment in the form of a physical object, or
2). A family heirloom with tradition and history and value.

Sitting in a basement for a couple decades doesn't seem fair to the violin or the family.
The instrument may be trashed at this point, but it is always worth trying to make the connection for whatever reason.

[livi]

Go ahead with your plan. It makes sense. Instruments are like old cars. Use it or lose it.

[Tobra]

Hope the basement has been dry

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Hope the basement has been dry

This was my first thought as well.

[rwest]

Might be more effective if your daughter makes the call and tells them about her passion for playing the violin and how she would love to honor the family's violin.

[Seahawk]

Having dealt with this in the past, I'll quote from an earlier thread: "Developing situation - I doubt this will end well..."

I hope I am wrong, but all the ingredients point to a soup sandwich.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Having dealt with this in the past, I'll quote from an earlier thread: "Developing situation - I doubt this will end well..."



I hope I am wrong, but all the ingredients point to a soup sandwich.

Yup. You'll have a fight on your hands, be it before or after the fact. Pick your poison I suppose.

[bivenator]

Is the violin more important than keeping the peace? I would do exploratory questions about the condition of the violin and the willingness of the kooky aunt to part with it before I asked for the item. It may not be worth the trouble if not stored properly and then you have hurt feelings and a moldy violin.

[sammyg2]

Who does ther violin belong to?
Did grandpa give it to the wife to play, or to own?
If the MIL gave it to someone else, then clearly the wife did not own it and had no claim to it. It was mearly loaned to her.
Technically it belonged to the MIL (inhereted from her husband or joint property, whichever), and she gave it to the SIL.
Same question, was that give it to play or give it to own?

If the MIL gave it to the SIL to own, then it belongs to her. If she merely LOANED it to hte SIl for her kid to play, then it still belongs to the mIL.
Is she still around? if not it goes to probate and the SIL keeps it.
What you are planning to do is sneaky and borderline dishonest. You are trying to trick someone out of it, to CON it away even though you have no legal claim to it.

My conscience would not allow me to pull something like that.
You have to look yourself in the mirror. Are you OK with donig things like that, is that the type of person you are OK with being?

If I were you and you're glad I'm not, I'd go buy my daughter an instrument equal to her talent and move on.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by bivenator

Is the violin more important than keeping the peace? I would do exploratory questions about the condition of the violin and the willingness of the kooky aunt to part with it before I asked for the item. It may not be worth the trouble if not stored properly and then you have hurt feelings and a moldy violin.

Makes sense to me..."Pick your battles"
Some just aren't worth it....

edited: Maybe broach the subject by asking if it's OK for your daughter to "play it" during some of her performances, etc. and see where that all leads?

[Rikao4]

Originally Posted by KC911

Makes sense to me..."Pick your battles"
Some just aren't worth it....

well ST lady been po for a long time...
so either ST goes to bat..
or they let it go..
and that's not gonna happen as it's still an issue 30 yrs later...
go for it..
besides..
no holiday is really complete..
unless somebody has a meltdown..

Rika

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Who does ther violin belong to?
Did grandpa give it to the wife to play, or to own?
If the MIL gave it to someone else, then clearly the wife did not own it and had no claim to it. It was mearly loaned to her.
Technically it belonged to the MIL (inhereted from her husband or joint property, whichever), and she gave it to the SIL.
Same question, was that give it to play or give it to own?

If the MIL gave it to the SIL to own, then it belongs to her. If she merely LOANED it to hte SIl for her kid to play, then it still belongs to the mIL.
Is she still around? if not it goes to probate and the SIL keeps it.
What you are planning to do is sneaky and borderline dishonest. You are trying to trick someone out of it, to CON it away even though you have no legal claim to it.

My conscience would not allow me to pull something like that.
You have to look yourself in the mirror. Are you OK with donig things like that, is that the type of person you are OK with being?

If I were you and you're glad I'm not, I'd go buy my daughter an instrument equal to her talent and move on.

The violin belongs to my wife.

It was gifted to her.

Her mother lent it, without my wife's knowledge or permission because my MIL has a habit of doing **** without asking.

SIL either misinterpreted MIL's actions or intentionally interpreted MIL's actions to her benefit.

Either is possible with her.

EDIT: I fail to see how asking him for it is sneaky or dishonest.

I have my mothers 190SL. It's the 7th car off the line from the 1st production year and is possibly the oldest one still around. Two owner car. It's worth an easy 6 figures on a bad day. To me it has zero monetary value. If I keep it it's worth nothing because I don't have the money in hand. If I sell it it's still worth nothing because if i bank the money I don't have the benefit of using it. If I sell it and spend the money I have nothing.

I keep it because it means something to me that goes beyond the "value" of the car.

This is a similar situation for my wife and daughter. What the thing is or is not worth is not part of the equation for us.

[stomachmonkey]

FWIW, Grandpa Eddie was my MIL's father.

Cousin is from my FIL's line.

No relation to Grandpa Eddie.

[Rikao4]

your lady is po and boiling..
probably be blowing steam once you all make it to the event...
and if not resolved one way or the other...
your gonna hear about it for another 30 years..
as it's her violin that she meant to give her daughter...
this is very important and personal for her...
so you really have no choice..

Rika

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

your lady is po and boiling..
probably be blowing steam once you all make it to the event...
and if not resolved one way or the other...
your gonna hear about it for another 30 years..
as it's her violin that she meant to give her daughter...
this is very important and personal for her...
so you really have no choice..

Rika

^^This^^

Whether or not this is the best time to settle the issue is arguable, but it is important to establish ownership of the violin at some time, and probably soon as some of the principles (MIL) may not be around.

It belongs to your wife.

Her mother lent it without her knowledge.

Misunderstanding by the SIL as to it being a loan or gift is irrelevant as it was not the MIL's to lend/give. This point needs to be established while the MIL is still alive and, ideally, by the MIL herself.

If your wife has been PO'd for thirty years, she/you need to act--it will only get worse.

Again, this may not be the time or occasion to act (risk ruining daughters performance?), but the issue needs resolution.