Hire a property manager......

[recycled sixtie]

or not to collect rent and manage property for us?

We have a condo rented out to a professional couple and we have had reports of them driving too fast in the parkade and not waiting when coming into the parkade and when leaving to ensure the parkade door was closed. The latter is done to make sure there are no lurkers entering the building while the door was open.

This is not the first time they have been told that they are driving too fast. This time when I emailed them the response was really snarky and they deny driving fast and gave a convoluted explanation of how they ensured the door was closed before proceeding.

So I understand that property managers charge 10% of rent as an example. Any of you deal with property managers to collect rent and manage your property? Either way I will impose a big rent increase next lease signing. I have not retaliated yet but I think actions speak louder than words and he has just triggered a manor rent increase next time round. Your thoughts as always are welcome!

Cheers, Guy

[fintstone]

I have done it both ways...and currently have property managers for my properties. I am able to write the expense off against the income and it sure saves some time and some headache. Even with managers, there will always be headaches with some renters. Even though you usually don't deal with tenants personally, the manager will usually advise you of what is going on...as will an occasional neighbor (If they know you). You have also added another potential person in the mix (The manager) for you to be annoyed at (because they did or didn't tell you something, failed to do something you asked, or spent to much on a repair, etc). Another problem that I have with my property in other states is that eventually, the property manager knows the tenants better than you. In one rental I have where the same folks have been there for decades, the manager saw them at least once a month when they paid the rent for almost 30 years. He saw me every 5 to 10 years. Sometimes when he argued for leniency for late rent...I wondered who he was working for as he knew them by first name and acted like they were very old friends and I hardly knew him. Eventually he died and my new manager was able to keep a better perspective and has advised me to increase the rent etc. I still keep it slightly below market for such long time tenants.

Personally, I believe it is worth paying for a manager if one can afford it (assuming some ability to deduct it from taxes).

On the other hand, I have had renters that were complained about simply because they had somehow crossed a neighbor ...and in one case because a neighbor was trying to sabotage my rental endeavor because he wanted to buy the house cheap. Once when it was vacant, he reported it to the city as a "drug house". Have you considered that perhaps the tenants are innocent and have every right to be snarky or perhaps you worded your email a bit too strongly?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I've looked into it and it seems like kind of a ripoff. Your mileage may vary. 10%,for someone to act as "one degree of separation" between you and the tenants living in your property seems a bit steep. At the end of the day anyone can find out who owns the property anyway (registry of deeds - public information) so does it really matter? Also I'm kind of picky about how maintenance is done and I don't like the idea of every silly nitpicky thing being contracted out to some profiteering handyman who will charge $200 for something I could fix myself (and the way I want) in an hour. Bigger repairs like roofs or major plumbing or whatever, sure - I'd probably hire someone for it but I don't feel like being nickel-dimed by stupid ticky-tack maintenance charges and that 10% cuts directly into my profit. So for now I'm staying in the house. Might rent but likely will just sell it - being a landlord sounds like too much of a PITA and I don't really want to pay someone for things that I could do myself so it'll be simpler to just take the money and run when the time comes.

[RacerX1166]

Depends on the property manager. My experience was with one who made repairs then inflated the cost of said repairs when billing me. These included replacing appliances where the markup was clear (i.e. Charging double what it would cost to buy and install from Home Depot). This was on top of the 10% fee.

With regard to the speeding issue, I highly doubt having a prop management company in the mix would provide any positive results.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

I have not retaliated yet but I think actions speak louder than words and he has just triggered a manor rent increase next time round.

Just don't renew the lease if it is a major problem which can't be fixed.

Let them know in advance, and get your ad out now.
Get the price ranges for your area and set accordingly.
You can go in and talk to a rental company (pretending to be a renter) if need be.

If they are good tenants otherwise, then leave it alone.
In some areas it is difficult to get responsible tenants and the downtime with no income is not worth the hassle.

Property mangers will nickle-and-dime you to death for every little fix and task.
Any contract should include "any repairs/expenses over X$ must be pre-approved and owner has the option of performing task himself"
On the flip side, they can advertise and pull collections better.

There are a lot of variables to consider.

[Bugsinrugs]

The property manager I had was a bulldog when it came time to collect the rent. Finding a new renter when an apartment became vacant was not their strongpoint. For the money it cost we decided to handle everything ourselves.

[Rick Lee]

Unless the tenants are bad about rent and minimal property upkeep, I really don't see how a prop. mgr. is going to help with a condo. Condo dues cover lawncare, snow removal, garbage, usually water and a lot of other stuff. My last tenant wanted me to make him my prop. mgr. when he moved out. This guy couldn't change a lightbulb or an a/c filter without calling a contractor. How the hell was he gonna be worth a dime as a prop. mgr.? It's probably been four yrs. since I had tenants who didn't pay by bank transfer on the first of each month at the latest. No need for a prop. mgr. Big need for good tenant screening.

[creaturecat]

Reports from others? Going too fast in the parkade, is that the issue? How fast, how often? Endangering lives?
People will whine and complain about anything these days. I would not act on hearsay.
I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it, let alone 10% of the rental income.

No rent controls there, regarding rental increase?
3% is the max in Vancouver. Impossible to evict, essentially.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Yea and their contracts obviously aren't written to benefit you. They basically pay themselves whatever they feel like out of your revenues and toss you whatever's left. No thanks. They're not in business to lose money but then again, neither am I. Therefore I'll deal with it myself - or just sell.

[porsche4life]

You guys realize that the property manager is on contract to you. That contract spells out how you want them to conduct business for you as they are your agent, and what the fees for that are! Read the damn contract before you sign it, and find a property manager who will work the way you want them to. If they don't perform to contract, can their ass, and report them to the state board for violations.

[Hugh R]

You better make sure the contract says that they will be responsible for babysitting your tenants driving behavior and responsible for correcting it. Otherwise you will be throwing money away.

[Evans, Marv]

For one property or a small number of properties locally, I can't see any reason for a property manager. I started with property management and soon decided I didn't need it since it insulated me from the tenants and I could do the maintenance/repairs myself and was perfectly capable of contracting out the larger things. If their behavior is breaking some kind of HOA rules, I'd let them know. I imagine that defines breaking the terms of the lease too. If we were talking about multiple properties out of state or something, property management might be the best option.

[flyenby]

I chose to manage my own properties for the last 27 years, no regrets. If I make a mistake it is mine, I can live with that. Helps to be a contractor..which I am

[LWJ]

I wish I hired a Property Manager years ago. I would have significantly more properties, income, and net worth. You have one condo. Not such a big deal and I probably would do it myself except for the reasons you give - you are not good at controlling tenant behavior. Another issue is adherance to the tenant discrimination laws which are very strict and challenging to comply with unless you work with them daily.
Good luck. I think 10% is out of market. I pay 8% and 5% for my PM's - which I think are on the high and low end.

Larry

[aigel]

I've done it both ways.

The big pro about using a property management company is that you are one step removed from the tenants. Legally and in terms of hassle. Their drain is clogged on Xmas eve? Not your problem. They know the law when something goes sideways and when looking for a tenant.

The big con about using a property management company is that you are one step removed from the tenants. You won't hear about issues in your home that you may want to. You can't fix something simple easily and quickly without having to pay the manager's hanydman service. You can't come by yourself every time there is a repair to keep an eye on things (usually you are left to a yearly inspection by the management company)

To me, if I am physically close, it is self-mange. If I am too far (3+ hours), it is property management.

That all said, I doubt a property manager would be able to do much on allegations that the tenants drove too fast. The only thing they could do for you is cancel the lease out for you in the boundaries of the law and find you good new tenants.

HTH,

G

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

For one property or a small number of properties locally, I can't see any reason for a property manager. I started with property management and soon decided I didn't need it since it insulated me from the tenants and I could do the maintenance/repairs myself and was perfectly capable of contracting out the larger things. If their behavior is breaking some kind of HOA rules, I'd let them know. I imagine that defines breaking the terms of the lease too. If we were talking about multiple properties out of state or something, property management might be the best option.

Exactly! I have about 40 properties so I have a PM that takes care of the lease and rent payments. They send me a check every month and take a small amount (3%-6%) for their services. Some people think this is foolish, as I do the actual management and the PM gets paid a bit for collecting rent. The pro for me is if there is a problem, they have an attorney on staff and I don't have to pay for attorney's fees.

As for the tenants driving, I would think the HOA has rules and a fine/ticket procedure. The tenant would get the ticket or warning from the HOA and would be put on notice regarding their driving.

[Scuba Steve]

Originally Posted by aigel

I've done it both ways.

The big pro about using a property management company is that you are one step removed from the tenants. Legally and in terms of hassle. Their drain is clogged on Xmas eve? Not your problem. They know the law when something goes sideways and when looking for a tenant.

This is a big reason why I use a good property manager for ours. They're also realtors and have been able to effectively screen and fill vacancies quickly. I deal with repairs when it's something in my field of expertise and I'm available, they deal with it when it's something I am not an expert with or when it's a very inconvenient time.

It's a shame it's such an incredibly strong seller's market right now; I actually like picking up places, refurbing them and renting them out. Right now flippers are running around like mad and from what I've seen workmanship is right back in the toilet again.