What do I need to know about the 996tt?
 

Been kicking around the idea of picking up another 911. I've always wanted a GT3, but those bottomed out a few years ago and are even more unaffordable (for me) now. I've thought of picking up the previously most unloved 911 of all time--the 964 (remember when those were in the 'teens?)--but I hardly even see C2 coupes with manual transmissions for sale, let alone at anything less than $45K, which is the lowest dealer ask I've seen.

So skimming through Craigslist, I've seen a few 996 turbos for sale. For as low as $35K! (Coupe, manual.). OK, I'm lukewarm on the styling. But it's got 993tt levels of performance, but at a fraction of the buy-in, and lower upkeep costs to boot. And it's got the Metzger motor, so no IMS stigma.

Talk me down from the cliff. I drove a friend's 993tt a couple years ago on a SoCal Hangover Run, and that thing made me feel like a superhero.

(I think Lubey had a thread going a year or so ago, but i couldn't find it in a search.)

I would recommend you drive one or two. I drove one last Aug when I was looking for another car. I was thoroughly underwhelmed. It was fast, capable, nicely appointed and comfortable, but too much of a GT car for me to enjoy. Maybe if I could buy one and then upgrade the suspension so it felt more lively. My first Porsche was a stock '88 911 targa. Then I had a '97 miata, then an '04 turbo miata. I like a car that's lively and communicative. Maybe the turbo that I drove was a bad example, but it wasn't lively or communicative. I suspect I'd like a GT(2|3), but the standard turbo was not even close to as much of a pleasure to drive as the '08 Boxster S that I ended up in. And, while I know it's not, the boxster feels like it's quicker than the 996tt because of the driving dynamics.

If my wallet was fat, I'd probably have a really sporty Boxster or Cayman (like a GTS) or probably a GT3 for my personal driving and then maybe something like a modern 911 turbo or Panamera turbo with an automatic for driving the missus to the theater or yacht club.

I know a guy in OK that has one and loves it... Tons of car for the money, on my shortlist too.

I have seriously considered them also, the 997 turbos are coming down in price. I really miss my 964T, but at the price they are commanding right now there is now way I'd buy another one.

Interested in seeing the responses in this thread.

Bill

I just can't get over the styling for the 996. You have a low entry price but still high $$$ to fix anything. I would try to get into the 997TT or just bite the bullet on the 993TT.

G

No biting the bullet on the 993. My buddy with the 993tt has an open offer on it to me. I couldn't afford it a few years ago when it was worth $80K; now it's worth about double that amount. 2 weeks ago he walked into a local P-car dealer and they thought they could list it at $195K if he'd consign it through them. Even at buddy pricing, I don't have the ability to spend 6-figures on a car.

Maybe if I stall for long enough 997tt prices will drop into my range. They still came in non-PDK format, correct?

Whoa - really, 200k for a 993TT? That thing must be cherry. Even then!? I didn't know. Last time I had a chance to buy one it was for mid 40s in 2009! Not kidding. But I was almost out of a job and apparently so was everyone else!

Yes, the 997 will be the one to wait for then. 60k should be doable soon, still have the Metzger engine and a stick.

I think the stick shift era is over and the "last stick shift 911" will be similar to the "last air cooled 911" in desirability. If I had the dough, I think a 997 GT3 would be a good buy. Definitely more car for the money than a 993TT.

It is sad to see our cars take off in price like this. Even my C2 993, I am unsure if I still want to go take it for a track day again?

G

Enter the 996 and 986. The cheap track day weapons of this era!

Yes, you want a 997.1 Turbo with the Mezger engine. If you can afford it, an '09 (last year for .1) with the upgraded HMI is best.

996s are ok if you don't mind the ugly exterior and garbage interior.

Wow, they are that much now? How many miles and how clean is it? I just bought a very low mileage, 26000 miles tt. Its in the shop waiting to get some going over then to the paint shop due to a nasty scrape by a fork lift right on the front bumper. I've had it for about a year and its finally out of the dungeon. Damn new bumper from Porsche is not cheap.

I think that 996 TT will out turn, out do the 993TT all day long. Its a superior car. Great bang for the money.

Only downside is that its a bit ugly.

Great car but what scares me the most about any modern car is the electronic boxes. That and brittle trim issues specific to the 996 cars. Did the Turbo suffer from this?

But I bet they are a blast to drive even in Auto. The best part about the car is the reliable motor.
At the time of their release they were given the gong of the best drivers car of all time by Top Gear.
Sure that was some time ago but that quality would still be there.

Enjoy!

"Now, let's talk styling. No, the 996 isn't the most attractive car in the world. But when you go home tonight, take a good look in the mirror and ask yourself:
Am I the most attractive human in the world? Of course you aren't. You're probably mediocre. You're probably in the bottom 50 percent, overall.
In fact, and I don't mean to be disrespectful here, but let's face it: there's a good chance that you are the 996 of mankind. Suddenly the car's flaws don't seem so bad now, do they?"

Here

That, my friend, is fuuuuunny. So true.

Exterior is totally subjective. The interior is of equal quality to the 997. Of the two the 996 probably wears better over time, especially the base interior. The 987/997 has a lot of "soft touch" paint throughout, God help you if the previous owner had fingernails......

I think the 996TT is a smoking deal for what you get. It will destroy a 993TT in every measurable performance category for a tiny fraction of 993TT money. They are simply bulletproof cars, there is no fatal flaw. Add a few modifications and they are supercars by modern standards. I rode in a friend's car that had over 550 HP just with bolts-ons, really there aren't words to describe that experience. In stock form they do lean more towards the GT car end of the spectrum, but a few suspension modifications gets them much closer to GT2/GT3 territory.

Is there any way to put a 997 front end on one?

Yes, but I believe you need new fenders as well. I've seen it done and it looks awkward, it really doesn't flow with the rest of the car.

What do I need to know about the 996tt?
 

Yep. Agree 100%.

How do you know there aren't subroutines built in there to "help" the car destroy itself once the mileage or age get to certain points? Planned obsolescence and repeat sales and all that you know. Seriously, what's stopping a mfr from doing something like that? Nobody would ever know.

On a less conspiracy-theory-ish note though I have a hard time trusting anything dependent on low-bid programmers that can only be understood by other programmers (assuming they can even get security access to devices and programming). One reason I really don't want to give up my '74...

Put tin-foil on the fusebox and ECU.

Surprised by the negativity regarding styling. I think they look great. Its a few years since I drove one, but I recall turning on to a highway entrance ramp and stomping on it, and feeling like my eyeballs were being pushed into my head. The acceleration is ferocious, but its also very comfortable car you can live with. A GT car to be sure.

http://mbworld.org/forums/attachment...57-medium-.jpg

LONG WINDED PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

I owned a lightweight early hot rod for 15 years. '70E with IROC bodywork and real '73S motor with MFI built to 2.7RS specs. It was the ultimate in early performance, power, handling and raw feedback.

I sold that car Christmas 2013, and at that time had been on a 3 year quest to move into a 996TT. I had only ridden in one 996TT at that time, which had a EVOMS 550 kit on it. Needless to say one on ramp experience in that car made you forget about any styling concerns you might have, including the headlights.

Fast forward to May of 2014. I was Porscheless and found a black 2001 996TT for sale in Alabama. It was completely stock except for some beautiful 19" Champion mesh wheels and some lowering springs. It had 39K miles, and we agreed to $41.5K. My 12 year old son and I bought a one way ticket and flew in to check it out.

The car was stunning. It had some very minor paint flaws (normal chips and scuffs that come with 13 year old original black paint, but it looked excellent. The interior was also excellent, and as I pulled out for the test drive, it felt as solid as a new car.

Then after getting warmed up, I began to push it a bit. The power was immediate. There is no turbo lag, and the substantial torque can be felt from 2,000 RPM! I was in love. But then, I felt a stumble and some bucking. WTF? It was mis-firing. The guy who owned it said the car was his dad's who recently passed away. He assured me there was no history of mis-firing, and that a detail shop has pressure washed the motor that morning, and it probably got the coils wet. I believed it, as it was a very minor stumble and I was sure it could be fixed with minor tune up work. He offered me $2,500 off, which was more than fair in my mind.

But, in end, I decided I didn't want to start my TT ownership with that kind of risk. What if it was something else? Lean condition? Compression issue? So, we passed on the car and drove the walk of shame home 900 miles in a rental car.

Two months later, I bought a non-tracked, bone stock black 2004 996GT3 with 25k miles. It was $20K more, but it is the best of both worlds. TT (stock) performance, with the agility and feedback (mostly) of my old car. I love it, and plan to keep it for 10 years.

Conclusion: I LOVE the 996TT and would still love to have one, even with the GT3!! The wide body looks great to my eye, and performance potential is almost unlimited. And as others have said, they are bulletproof. Far and away the best value in super cars for Toyota Camry money! Buy with confidence!

JA

I seem to recall reading on the forums about a 300k+ daily driven 996TT in Europe. There are quite a few over 100k, and I've seen a few over 200k.

If you want a 996TT, now is a good time to buy. They really seem to have bottomed out around $40k, I doubt they get much cheaper.

I am still on the look out for a Lapis blue, saddle interior tip ...

Ya'll just pipe down there mister! I'm still a few years off from buying my 996 and I need all these haters to keep the prices down until I can buy in. ;)

I never said I woudnt own one. I certainly would. They are a blast to drive.

Not my words. Quoted from the link.

Sorry bout that.

Tips on Buying a Turbo Car... Rennlist thread

Ever wanted to own a turbocharged car, but never knew the right questions to ask? Turbo Technics have put together a buyers guide. You don't have to be a mechanic, but if you can take someone along with you it does help.

Here's what you do...........

First check under the bonnet (hood). Check the following...............

1. Engine oil condition. Black oil suggests poor maintenance.
2. Service history. Very important, especially for a turbo engine.
3. Receipts from previous turbo repairs. Proof of a reputable service history.
4. Aftermarket turbo remanufacturer’s name plate. Has the turbo been replaced before and by whom ? Be suspicious if the repair was not carried out by a reputable company.
5. Oil leaks around the turbo. Signs of a poor turbo rebuild or a worn turbo.
6. Heat shields loose around the turbo. Sign of a recent replacement turbo.
7. Painted exhaust turbine housing. Could be trying to hide a poor quality turbo repair.
8. Water staining around the turbo bearing housing. Leaking water connections.
9. Alignment of hoses and connections. Poor alignment indicates a badly repaired turbo.
10. Non-genuine hose clips. May indicate poor workmanship.
11. Bleed valve on actuator hose. Turbo has been operating at a higher boost pressure that it was originally designed for. This may have damaged the turbo.
12. Dump valve. Indicates that other engine modifications may have been performed.
13. Replacement actuator. Uprated actuators are fitted to operate at a higher boost pressure. This may result in turbo damage.
14. Grip marks on actuator rod. Signs of a recently increased or reduced boost pressure adjustment or problems with the turbo.
15. Air filter condition. Signs of oil staining on the air filter may indicate engine wear.
16. Split compressor intake hose. Unfiltered air entering a turbo will cause damage to the compressor wheel.
17. Exhaust leaks. An incorrectly serviced engine can run weak, causing excessive heat build-up in the exhaust. This leads to warping and cracking of the exhaust manifold and turbine housing.
18. Non genuine oil filter. A sign of cost cutting when servicing a car.
19. Retro-fitted boost gauges. Cars fitted with a boost gauge tend to have had the boost pressure increased.
20. Compressor wheel lift. Movement of the turbocharger’s rotating shaft, up and down, is an indication of turbo bearing wear.
21. Rubbing compressor wheel marks. If you can get the owners permission to remove the air filter hose, check signs of the rotating compressor wheel making contact with or rubbing the housing. This indicates excessive wear in the turbo bearings and means a turbo rebuild is imminent.
22. Actuator hose cracked or split. This will cause over-boost.
23. Intercooler damaged or split. This will cause low boost and a loss of power.
24. Rubbing or split Intercooler hoses. This will cause low boost and a loss of power.
25. Oil feed hose leaking. May lead to turbo oil starvation and eventual failure.
26. Oil drain hoses squashed or bent. Restrictions in the turbo oil return will lead to leaking turbo seals and blue oil smoke from the exhaust.
27. Breather hoses squashed or bent. Restrictions in the breather pipes or hoses may cause blue oil smoke from the exhaust.
28. Breather system "one-way" valve sticking. Can cause blue exhaust oil smoke.
29. Uprated or non genuine exhaust system. Reducing the exhaust back pressure with a free flow exhaust system can cause oil leakage from the turbo oil seals, leading to blue exhaust oil smoke.

Next comes the road test. Check the following...............

1. Whistling noise on acceleration. Turbo imbalance or air leak.
2. Rubbing noise on acceleration. Turbo bearings badly worn.
3. Poor performance. Low boost caused by defective turbo, wastegate mechanism or air leak.
4. Too much performance. Over boost may be due to an incorrectly adjusted or defective wastegate.
5. Hesitation - violent. This condition can be experienced when accelerating hard. The boost pressure exceeds a nominal value, leading to over boost (a safety cut out switch). The problem may be caused by a defective wastegate.
6. Hesitation - holding back. Engine mixture weak, or air restriction.
7. Pinking or detonation under load. Incorrect ignition setting, poor quality fuel, excessive boost pressure or a poorly maintained engine.
8. Blue smoke under hard acceleration. Engine wear or defective breather system.
9. Blue smoke under deceleration. Engine wear.

Now whilst the engine is at normal operating temperature, leave the engine idling for 10 minutes. Check the following..................

1. Blue oil smoke at idle. Defective turbo seals, excessive bearing wear, defective breather system or restricted turbo oil drain system.
2. Black smoke at idle. Worn diesel injection pump or injectors or excessive over-fuelling.
3. White smoke at idle. Engine damage, cracked cylinder head or head gasket failure. Very rarely caused by a damaged turbocharger.

Congratulation. If all the tests above checked out OK, then your probably reaching for your cheque book now, but before you do, read the Turbo Technics Guide to Owning a Turbocharged Car.. . .

also.... radiator leaks?

I agree on the 996tt pricing, which is partially why I'm interested. (Trying to avoid any more big-ticket depreciating assets.)

But what about the 997tt? Will those drop as low? Hold out and wait? Decisions, decisions...

I haven't been a big fan of the bland styling, but this car looks pretty good. Maybe the 996 just needs the right set of wheels to make it -- well maybe not hot, but at least not as blah. This silver car looks good. And hey, from the driver's seat, while driven in anger they all look great.

I doubt as low. They seem to be more loved and the gt cars are already appreciating with the lack of a stick in the 991s. I'd expect the turbo will follow suit soon.

I generally agree. They made more turbos than GT2/GT3, so I doubt they'll appreciate as quickly. Even at wholesale, it's hard to find a 997TT at under $60k, so there's a big gap between the 996 and 997. I doubt they ever get as low as the 996.

It probably just needed coils.

996 turbos are one helluva performance bargain. Get a PPI and if all is good, get it.

I want one with dings and scrapes on it and higher than average miles for really cheap. I missed out on the perfect candidate last year, it actually had low miles but bad cosmetics. OG owner, dead stock and never even driven hard. He traded it in on a new car and probably got $20k for it.

Miles would not scare me a bit if the car had a maintenance history.

If that was in California, I'd seriously go take a look.

No picture of the drivers seat. There is a 1/2 picture of the base but not of the seat back or side from the drivers door.

I'd drive it to you for the actual costs.... ;)