Let's find this Fcuker!!!

[dan88911]

I don't know... on the surface it seems a bullet to the head or a drone strike is just not enough or too quick an exit for this POS.

[flatbutt]

Anything that he's made to suffer may just increase his glory and probably would serve as inspiration to others of his tribe. Yes vengeance demands we be cruel in the exercise but sticking him into a windowless cell for life should show them that they are after all powerless. But what do I know?

[widgeon13]

Kill him but DON'T smear it all over the news! WTF good does it do to tell everyone? Makes it just another political move.

Some other asshat will just take his place.

[fintstone]

He is not really in hiding. If we wanted to find him and kill him, he would be dead. The 7 combat sorties we average per day in that region occurred about every 10 minutes in the early days in our war with Iraq. We have put no boots on the ground and have empowered our enemies and marginalized our allies. We obviously just do not care that these folks are murdering all Christians and moderates in the region, raping and selling women and children...and torturing and executing Americans and our allies. I am ashamed that a powerful nation like ours continues to look the other way when we have the power to stop this slaughter.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by fintstone

He is not really in hiding. If we wanted to find him and kill him, he would be dead. The 7 combat sorties we average per day in that region occurred about every 10 minutes in the early days in our war with Iraq. We have put no boots on the ground and have empowered our enemies and marginalized our allies. We obviously just do not care that these folks are murdering all Christians and moderates in the region, raping and selling women and children...and torturing and executing Americans and our allies. I am ashamed that a powerful nation like ours continues to look the other way when we have the power to stop this slaughter.

While it would be a good thing for us to take him out and then do the same with each successor, sort of like Israel does to Hamas, I don't understand why we should invade Syria.

We did nothing to stop genocide in Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan, etc.

When did it become the US's job to protect Christians around the world?

Which American killed by ISIS did not go to Syria on his/her own accord?

What has ISIS done to US national or homeland security or even to the US military in forward areas?

Whatever has been done to our national security or image abroad was not done by ISIS. It was done by our own seemingly endless involvement in the sandbox, overspending into oblivion and electing a guy twice who said he didn't want us to get involved in more sandbox wars. It sure is gut-wrenching to watch ISIS operate with impunity over there. But there are two kinds of problems in the world - ours and theirs. This sounds like one of theirs.

[yazhound]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

While it would be a good thing for us to take him out and then do the same with each successor, sort of like Israel does to Hamas, I don't understand why we should invade Syria.

We did nothing to stop genocide in Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan, etc.

When did it become the US's job to protect Christians around the world?

Which American killed by ISIS did not go to Syria on his/her own accord?

What has ISIS done to US national or homeland security or even to the US military in forward areas?

Whatever has been done to our national security or image abroad was not done by ISIS. It was done by our own seemingly endless involvement in the sandbox, overspending into oblivion and electing a guy twice who said he didn't want us to get involved in more sandbox wars. It sure is gut-wrenching to watch ISIS operate with impunity over there. But there are two kinds of problems in the world - ours and theirs. This sounds like one of theirs.

Good points all. Not to forget that boots on the ground for ten yrs has not made a positive long term difference. Only more instability.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by yazhound

Good points all. Not to forget that boots on the ground for ten yrs has not made a positive long term difference. Only more instability.

Yeah, I forgot to add that we don't have the political will to finish the job. So there's no point in starting it. We're not leaving Iraq or Afghanistan in better shape than we found them. ISIS is a whole different animal and we simply won't get the kind of tough with them they understand even if we put boots on the ground. No point in starting that next war. They'd eventually catch a US serviceman or woman do worse things to them than to the Jordanian pilot. And what would we do about it, especially with boots already on the ground?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

While it would be a good thing for us to take him out and then do the same with each successor, sort of like Israel does to Hamas, I don't understand why we should invade Syria.

We did nothing to stop genocide in Rwanda, Cambodia, Sudan, etc.

When did it become the US's job to protect Christians around the world?

Which American killed by ISIS did not go to Syria on his/her own accord?

What has ISIS done to US national or homeland security or even to the US military in forward areas?

Whatever has been done to our national security or image abroad was not done by ISIS. It was done by our own seemingly endless involvement in the sandbox, overspending into oblivion and electing a guy twice who said he didn't want us to get involved in more sandbox wars. It sure is gut-wrenching to watch ISIS operate with impunity over there. But there are two kinds of problems in the world - ours and theirs. This sounds like one of theirs.

As long as they stayed in Syria and battled the government there, I had no problem with them. Now they are in almost every nation in the Middle East and North Africa....and spreading into Asia. They are recruiting terrorists to kill Americans at home (including Canada). As long as they did not attack our allies or kill Americans and citizens of our allies...they were on their own.

Kill one American anywhere in the world and you should be tracked down and butchered as horribly as possible (and everyone associated with you and your crime). I don't care if it is Charlie Manson you kill. Harm an American and you are toast.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by yazhound

Good points all. Not to forget that boots on the ground for ten yrs has not made a positive long term difference. Only more instability.

Of course it did. This did not happen until after we cut and run in 2011.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Yeah, I forgot to add that we don't have the political will to finish the job. So there's no point in starting it. We're not leaving Iraq or Afghanistan in better shape than we found them...

We could have left Iraq as it was in 2009 (or better)..or even 2011 if we had wanted to (with little additional expense). We could have provided airpower and intel to the Iraqis, but we chose not to. We could killed every single member of ISIS with a few airstrikes when their convoy rolled down out of Syria, but we chose not to. We chose this path.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Kill one American anywhere in the world and you should be tracked down and butchered as horribly as possible (and everyone associated with you and your crime). I don't care if it is Charlie Manson you kill. Harm an American and you are toast.

I agree. But the Americans they killed went to their turf. Syria is a war zone and no one should be going there without a gun and military orders. Anyone who does is on their own and is certainly no reason for us to launch an invasion. Hell, we wouldn't even defend our embassies in Libya and Yemen. We're supposed to invade Syria because of American do-gooders who went there on their own? Uh, no.

All kinds of terrorist groups train homegrown terrorists to carry out attacks in western countries. There is no stopping that from afar. We need good intel here at home and to seriously clamp down on anyone traveling to the sandbox for jihad or training. That should earn a permanent ban on entry to ANY western country. But we're not serious about it. When we get serious here at home and if that doesn't work, I'd consider going further out. We won't secure our border, we let people in who've been to jihad training and we totally ignore those who overstay their visas. We ain't serious.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by fintstone

We could have left Iraq as it was in 2009 (or better)..or even 2011 if we had wanted to (with little additional expense). We could have provided airpower and intel to the Iraqis, but we chose not to. We could killed every single member of ISIS with a few airstrikes when their convoy rolled down out of Syria, but we chose not to. We chose this path.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda - we didn't, and there's no reason to think we'll get it right in Syria with a far more determined and ruthless enemy.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I agree. But the Americans they killed went to their turf. Syria is a war zone and no one should be going there without a gun and military orders. Anyone who does is on their own and is certainly no reason for us to launch an invasion. Hell, we wouldn't even defend our embassies in Libya and Yemen. We're supposed to invade Syria because of American do-gooders who went there on their own? Uh, no....

I don't care where an American is. Executing them for being an American is not like they were killed by accident.

Obviously, I would have protected the Embassies in Libya and Yemen as well. Of course those only happened because we are considered weak.

These guys are not just in Syria....but yes, I would certainly follow them there (or almost anywhere) to kill them.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Coulda, woulda, shoulda - we didn't, and there's no reason to think we'll get it right in Syria with a far more determined and ruthless enemy.

We did get it right...and then politically decided to sacrifice our allies. A more determined and more ruthless enemy is much easier to fight. They cannot hide among the locals (because they have pretty much killed anyone not allied to them)...an the few who are not will point them out.

We know how to do this, all the military needs is to be unleashed.

[yazhound]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Of course it did. This did not happen until after we cut and run in 2011.

No it did not. LASTING. Our long term goals not met, country destabilized. Just pretty much mucked it up. War and military are not the answers.

Cut and run? Do you really think ten yrs was cutting and running. How many more decades should we remain?

[yazhound]

Flin, you are silly in your approach. Just unleash the military? How many Muslims in the world? How many soldiers in the military? Weakness is not the issue here.

You have to have a real plan, that is within capabilities, and that means more than just guns and bombs and grunts.

Achieving longlasting stability is not ours to do and we can only influence that so much. You cannot change a nation because you think you are right. Haven't you learned that lesson yet?
Seems certain amount of obtuseness going on.

Willing blindness to the fact that USA cannot dictate and get the result we think we should have. The thinking that we can is just fallicy and fantasy.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by yazhound

No it did not. LASTING. Our long term goals not met, country destabilized. Just pretty much mucked it up. War and military are not the answers.

Cut and run? Do you really think ten yrs was cutting and running. How many more decades should we remain?

Thing were going pretty well prior to withdrawal: According to the Administration:

" What we were looking for was an Iraq that was secure, stable, and self reliant, and that’s what we got here, so there’s no question that was a success,"

The House Armed Services Committee Chairman's response:
"Multiple experts have testified before my committee that the Iraqis still lack important capacities in their ability to maintain their internal stability and territorial integrity," McKeon said. "These shortcomings could reverse the decade of hard work and sacrifice both countries have endured to build a free Iraq."

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by yazhound

Flin, you are silly in your approach. Just unleash the military? How many Muslims in the world? How many soldiers in the military? Weakness is not the issue here.

You have to have a real plan, that is within capabilities, and that means more than just guns and bombs and grunts.

Achieving longlasting stability is not ours to do and we can only influence that so much. You cannot change a nation because you think you are right. Haven't you learned that lesson yet?
Seems certain amount of obtuseness going on.

Willing blindness to the fact that USA cannot dictate and get the result we think we should have. The thinking that we can is just fallicy and fantasy.

There were about 3K member of ISIS when they rolled into Iraq. We have about 2 Million military.

We don't need to kill all Muslims, only the one who need killing.

Blah, blah, blah...Our military doesn't need excuses, only a Commander and Chief.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by fintstone

SNIP:::

Kill one American anywhere in the world and you should be tracked down and butchered as horribly as possible (and everyone associated with you and your crime). I don't care if it is Charlie Manson you kill. Harm an American and you are toast.

That was the same strategy the Romans used when their empire was at it's peak. If you even threatened a Roman citizen the wrath of the Roman empire would soon be knocking at your door.
And for many years it actually worked. The problem is that in today's modern world this would be extremely difficult if not impossible to achieve.

All "they" have to do is slip over the border of a country that doesn't cooperate with the US.

Think back to Bin laden and Pakistan. Or, why did it take so long to find him considering Pakistan was supposed to be an ally of the US?
And why did the US not involve the Pakistani's in the raid?

The modern world is truly "complicated". Everything is argued about and it all seems to take forever.

Yesterday I watched a BBC news story about this...
They had some British Muslims (white guys with long beards types ) explaining how this criminal was victimized by MI6 and that may have made him what he is.
I could not believe the attitude of the people being interviewed. "Somehow it wasn't actually his fault and that he was made this way by British Society!"

If the people being interviewed were a true representation of the average Muslims in the UK... Then England is stuffed already and beyond hope.

I really hope this isn't representative of Europe in general.

[BeyGon]

Originally Posted by yazhound

Good points all. Not to forget that boots on the ground for ten yrs has not made a positive long term difference. Only more instability.

this administration, like the LBJ admin doesn't want a winner, at least not on our side.