Should minimum wage be: Higher? Lower? None?

[rusnak]

And since California ag produces everything from lettuce and tomatoes for your taco, hamburger, or fancy steak house salad, you will all see what happens when the California minimum wage increases to $10. You'll be paying $7 for a watermelon or a pumpkin, and $4 for a bag of lettuce, or $2 for a taco at Taco Bell.

[wdfifteen]

A higher minimum wage would help me more than hurt me. Put more money in the pockets of potential customers, I have more customers, I make more money. Raise it.

[ckelly78z]

So basically, these protesters standing on street corners in front of fast food joints demanding thier $15 an hour because "we just don't understand how hard it is to live properly these days on anything less". Are these employees wanting to work 50% harder for thier wages, or do they feel entitled instantly to a wage that many people have worked for years to achieve ? I think a great way of throwing the economy into a tailspin would be to raise the minimum wage all in one fell swoop....just watch the small businesses close, or lay off unneeded workers to afford it.

[lane912]

what about tying CEO and BOD compensation to a fixed multiple of the lowest paid employee?
that could free up incentive cash to raise the lowest wage earners.

this does nothing for small companies though-

[McLovin]

There's so much injustice and income inequality.

Why not have the Government set all wages?

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by lane912

what about tying CEO and BOD compensation to a fixed multiple of the lowest paid employee?
that could free up incentive cash to raise the lowest wage earners.

this does nothing for small companies though-

That's an even dumber idea.

Here's an example: Last year, for the first time ever, I turned away entry level workers. I used to always give an ambitious high schooler a shot at a part time job. If you do your homework first, then I'll let you work. It always seemed to work out well. I had dads who wanted their sons to be responsible show up every season and ask me to hire thier kids.

This year I say "no". We have no entry level jobs. Experience required. That's because my labor costs just went up 17% due to the mandatory minimum wage increase.

So they ask "where do I go to get experience?". I say "not my problem". Maybe go ask Obama that question. He doesn't have any experience either....

[fintstone]

Close the borders, send anyone who is not a citizen home. There will suddenly be lots of job openings in low wage positions (and in ICE and the Border Patrol). Labor/Market forces will increase wages. Then reduce the amount that all income based social welfare programs pay by 50% (SNAP, WIC, EIC, Section 8, Federal college loans and grants, etc.). There will suddenly be lots of folks who want to work to match the increase in jobs.

[rusnak]

Lazy, tattooed, "poor me" White guys make poor employees compared to a motivated Vato.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by McLovin

There's so much injustice and income inequality.

Why not have the Government set all wages?

Yes, it seems like cutting the wages of others is always popular. Maybe everyone should just make $15hr. ..and all drive a Kia. Why is one person's labor worth more than someone else's? Oh yeah, that has been tried and it didn't works so well.

No allowing the free market to set the value of one's labor is akin to slavery.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Lazy, tattooed, "poor me" White guys make poor employees compared to a motivated Vato.

Only because they are not equally "motivated". I have always found hunger to be extremely motivating.

[Hugh R]

Originally Posted by widebody911

I do not think this is true. This argument assumes that if someone is flipping burgers they're either a wet-behind-the-ears teenager or being punished for some poor life choice or just not being bright in general.

So they should get paid more for poor life choices?

Not everyone is going to be an engineer, rocket surgeon, or podiatrist.

Nope, they aren't, should they get paid like one?

In reality, there are more people of working age than there are "good-paying" jobs.

And when you raise the min. wage, there will be even less "good-paying" jobs.

Does it really seem fair that someone can work 8 hours a day and yet not make enough for food & housing?

Not the employer's problem, especially employers in Carmichael, CA. If you can't afford to live in the area, you should move to a place where you can afford to live on what you earn.

As a mental exercise, imagine what would happen if everyone had a degree. Then what? You'll have guys with college degrees doing menial jobs... Hey wait! We already have that. Hell, some companies require a degree even for low-level jobs, and they get away with it because they know there's a glut of talent.

Again, a higher minimum wage will make this glut worse.

People say raising the minimum wage will run smaller companies out of business; is any company really entitled to cheap labor? The exact same argument was used in defense of slavery: if slavery were abolished, it would put plantations out of business and make the US economically vulnerable to other countries.

Slavery isn't the same thing by a long shot, you can leave your employer for a better paying job.

If your company can't afford to pay your employees enough, maybe you shouldn't be in business.

What is paid enough, what if you make min. wage and have a non-working wife and four kids, maybe you should have kept it in your pants if you can't afford that family in the first place.

I also don't think you can have a discussion about minimum wage and the employment rate without bringing up the topic of the visa programs to bring in (legal) low-wage indentured servants from other countries to bridge imaginary skill gaps.

Submitted for your consideration.

[SiberianDVM]

If the minimum wage was $15, maybe this nice Northern lady would have gotten bacon on her burger:

Woman Sentenced For Shooting Fast-Food Restaurant Over Missing Bacon | Northville, MI Patch

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Only because they are not equally "motivated". I have always found hunger to be extremely motivating.

I honestly don't know. I always take a pass on questionable guys. They take a toll on crew morale with their self-pity, poor work ethic, etc.

I hire guys who have a lot of self pride in their work. So much so, that I knew last year when one of them backed the forklift into a light pole, there was nothing that I could say to make him try harder to not do it again. He tortured himself for weeks over it. You hire some shlub from County lockup, and he'll blame me for putting a light pole where he was driving, or think nothing of being fired or quit. It's always MY fault, the employer, for his problems. I don't need that sort of crap. Instead, I hire guys who love to work, and are happy when customers are happy. These tend to be more than not, Mexican guys or really down to Earth white guys that want a second job and enjoy an employer who shows them respect and appreciation.

[cairns]

so stupid wants 15..
means Dumbo is gonna demand 20..
and Not my job.. thinks he now is worth 25...

yup..good plan..

I laughed out loud. And couldn't have said it better.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by widebody911

I do not think this is true. This argument assumes that if someone is flipping burgers they're either a wet-behind-the-ears teenager or being punished for some poor life choice or just not being bright in general

Well then, we will just have to agree to disagree. Making the assumption that they are stupid, made poor choices or are kids is not what I am doing.

If it is a minimum wage job, it is a job an employer is not willing to pay much to have done. If it goes from $9 to $15, does that mean that all the people who had formerly made $15 get $21 now? If not, why not?

Does the employer eat this added expense? No they do not. They do the job with fewer employees, they raise prices or most likely both. If they can't do that, they close their doors. It does not necessarily mean a business model is not viable if it can't survive when labor costs are artificially increased 65%. It more likely indicates that they were operating on a margin narrow enough that they can't absorb the additional expenses.

Unless every book on economics I have perused is wrong, raising minimum wage will almost certainly result in fewer entry level jobs.

For example, if wages go from $9 to $15, and your payroll for two weeks is $9000, you get 1000 hours of work from the lower pay rate, 600 hours of work at the higher one. You are going to either have to cut hours for each employee, eliminate employees or raise your prices to cover the difference. Problem with the third option is people may already be paying as much as they will for your widgets.

[fintstone]

A guy was mowing the lawn at one of my houses two years ago for $65 and wanted $70. He wasn't really doing a very good job and complained a lot about how poor he was...and how lucky I am (looking for a tip/raise). I bought a nicer mower and started doing it myself. The new next door neighbor came over last weekend and offered to do it for $45. He has 5 kids and one in the oven. I told him that if he did as good a job as I do (better than the previous "professional"), I would pay him $50. Of course he accepted. At $70, there is no job (I have to make over $100 to pay $70 after taxes), at $50, there is and $100-$200 a month cash will go a long way out here in the country.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by fintstone

A guy was mowing the lawn at one of my houses two years ago for $65 and wanted $70. He wasn't really doing a very good job and complained a lot about how poor he was...and how lucky I am (looking for a tip/raise). I bought a nicer mower and started doing it myself.

A good high school buddy didn't like mowing lawns, but was pretty good at hitting up the local realtors to have him maintain the yards in their vacant mcmansion listings. In 1988 $50 to mow a big lawn was still good money. He subbed it out to kids for $25 and kept $25 for himself. Never had to mow a lawn and made plenty of money doing it.

[dan88911]

This issue is another failure on the part of our government.
They should have index min. wage to the rate of inflation.
As they should have with the max. income limits as it relates to taxation when you collect S.S.

[sammyg2]

In life, there are decisions and consequences. If you make poor decisions, you pay the corresponding consequences. That way life teaches us NOT to make poor choices.
And society grows and improves and we all benefit.

OR AT LEAST THAT IS HOW IT USED TO BE!!!!

Nowadays the bleeding hearts have legislated out nearly all consequences and society is going downhill because of that.
Road to hell, good intentions. STOOPID.

Workers should be compensated relative to their contributions to the company and to the rarity and value of their skills.

If a worker has specialized skills that very few possess, and those skills create significant revenue, then that worker deserves a very high rate of pay.

But if a worker possesses only average, ordinary skills that most anyone off the street has, and those skills generate a relatively small income stream, then that worker deserves to be paid very little.

Just like they told EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US when we were young:

pay attention, get good grades, get a good education and life will be better when you grow up.

If you did not listen to them it's your fault. Not mine.

[fintstone]

If working smarter and harder did not pay better...no one would.