Should minimum wage be: Higher? Lower? None?

[jyl]

I'd like to have a discussion about the various minimum wage initiatives that are being pursued.

For example, in Oregon there is a ballot initiative being pursued, to raise the minimum wage to $15/hour by 2019. Seattle will move the minimum wage to $15 for larger employers by 2017. Currently our minimum wage in Oregon is $9.25/hour, higher than many other states. Info here Minimum Wage Rates for 2015 (Updated February 25, 2015)

There are some obvious arguments. 40 hours/week at the current Oregon minimum wage ($9.25/hour) gets a full time worker $18,500/year gross. Some say a higher minimum wage would move people off public assistance, saving the taxpayer money. On the other hand, many businesses don't want to pay more, and say they will shut down or raise prices if minimum wage goes up. Some say lots of workers aren't worth even minimum wage. Others say the answer is to fire those workers and replace them with workers who are worth it.

What do you think? Should the minimum wage be higher? Why, how much? Should there be any minimum wage at all? Why not allow people to be paid $3/hour, $5/hour? Should it depend on company size, worker age, etc?

[McLovin]

Where does $15 hour come from?

Why not make it $30/hour?

[Rikao4]

so stupid wants 15..
means Dumbo is gonna demand 20..
and Not my job.. thinks he now is worth 25...

yup..good plan..

[Tobra]

If you increase minimum wage, you will increase unemployment. Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs, not careers. When I had a minimum wage job, I always had more than one job. Raising minimum wage will result in increased prices; some will want to raise minimum wage to keep up with inflation, which will cause prices to go up, ad infinitum. The only ones that think it is a good idea never ran a business.

[Dantilla]

I like Switzerland's model.

Very high standard of living with no government-mandated minimum wage.

I have found the best way to retain good employees is to pay them enough that they want to stay.

[anotherblack944]

Remember it will not only affect those making minimum wage today.

Does it really make any sense to turn 1/4 of the private sector jobs in the US into minimum wage jobs?

[O'Grady]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

I like Switzerland's model.

Very high standard of living with no government-mandated minimum wage.

I have found the best way to retain good employees is to pay them enough that they want to stay.

I've paid over market several times for skilled tradesmen/journeyman and the idea of being held responsible for your work vs pay always leads to going down the road for less pay and fewer responsibilities. I've been told as much because I actually have good relationships with most who have left "Man, I just didn't want it all on my shoulders!"

[Rick Lee]

There should be no min. wage. Where in the Const. does the gov't. get the power to set the price of labor?

[John Rogers]

No minimum wage.......if someone wants to make burgers for 20+ years then they are due whatever the company wants to pay them. On a couple of the muzzle loader forums, which seem to have a lot of old guys like me, the universal thought is to let the market decide what to pay the workers and managers.

The thoughts in CA and with the folks who control the state government now is to mandate wages and we talked about this last week in the evening computer class I was teaching. I asked each student why they were in class and the universal answer was to get a degree so they could get a better job, make more money and then advance. Several are riding along on the VA assistance (C's for grades) but when it gets close to ending they then get pretty serious (jumps up to A's and B's). They also felt the politicos that push this are doing it for votes since every time they mention it there are news conferences and lots of TV cameras so they look good!

[LeeH]

$15/hour is the equivalent to an annual salary of about $30,000 per year. As someone who handles the accounting for many small businesses, I can tell you first hand, a lot of them will suffer or be put out of business if they were required to pay this much. When a small business owner is only netting $40-50K for their efforts, it will be a challenge for many to go from $8.50 or$9.00/hour they pay their part timers now to $15/hour.

I've had small business clients tell me that their $50K net is really just not worth the risk and effort they put forth. Knock that down to $30K net for the owner because they have to pay their staff more and they're just going to shut the doors. They might as well go get a "minimum wage" job and not risk their life savings on running a business.

[Nostril Cheese]

Asking this group is like saying, "Lets kill the poor".

[HardDrive]

I think a strong boost in the minimum wage could be a good thing. $12ish. I think $15 is too drastic and would cause distortions in the economy.

When people feel like they are making a lot more money, it makes them open their wallets and spend it. Consumer spending is a good thing.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs, not careers.

I do not think this is true. This argument assumes that if someone is flipping burgers they're either a wet-behind-the-ears teenager or being punished for some poor life choice or just not being bright in general.

Not everyone is going to be an engineer, rocket surgeon, or podiatrist.

In reality, there are more people of working age than there are "good-paying" jobs.

Does it really seem fair that someone can work 8 hours a day and yet not make enough for food & housing?

As a mental exercise, imagine what would happen if everyone had a degree. Then what? You'll have guys with college degrees doing menial jobs... Hey wait! We already have that. Hell, some companies require a degree even for low-level jobs, and they get away with it because they know there's a glut of talent.

People say raising the minimum wage will run smaller companies out of business; is any company really entitled to cheap labor? The exact same argument was used in defense of slavery: if slavery were abolished, it would put plantations out of business and make the US economically vulnerable to other countries.

If your company can't afford to pay your employees enough, maybe you shouldn't be in business.

I also don't think you can have a discussion about minimum wage and the employment rate without bringing up the topic of the visa programs to bring in (legal) low-wage indentured servants from other countries to bridge imaginary skill gaps.

[tadd]

So long as there is no other source of labor to skew the market, I could stand behind a no minimum wage.

Its that the market gets distorted with ultra cheap labor, like illegals.

I don't think most business fully thinks thru what it would be like without a minimum wage. Fruit pickers, meat packers, and other hard or manual labor would be paying out the wazoo to get people once you take away the illegals.

Its like the STEM gripes. There are plenty of PhDs out there. Nobody wants to pay for them, so bring on the HB1s.

Its not going to matter in a decade anyway. Once the boomer peak hits industry are going to be forking over cash to find bodies. It will be a workers paradise. The millennials will get there day. Too bad I'm an X'er that's just a bit to old to take advantage .

[flipper35]

The problem is peoples expectations. They want a high wage for doing nothing, they want to pay very little for goods and services (though I have to admit I would have a hard time paying $15 for a meal at a fast food place when I can get a better meal for the same money).

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by tadd

Its not going to matter in a decade anyway. Once the boomer peak hits industry are going to be forking over cash to find bodies. It will be a workers paradise. The millennials will get there day. Too bad I'm an X'er that's just a bit to old to take advantage .

The H1 cap will continually be raised to put downward pressure on wages, and the range of vocations will be expanded.

[look 171]

My waitress will get be making about 25 bucks an hour similar to an x ray tech or any qualify skilled folks. Who comes up with this stuff anyway?

I vote for no 15 bucks min wage. Cost of living, if fine a few %. There are those who complain about the cost of living is too much in places like socal, then they can go to Kansas, AZ or any other affordable place. Hop on the bus.

All the illegals are soon to demand that too if not already. I hear they want 12 bucks an hour standing at the corners of Home depots. There's a lil' trailer that tell them to demand a certain amount. Those people need to be shot on site.

[look 171]

I can't seem to warp my head around guys making 15 bucks + tips for washing my car. All added up is more then 20 an hour? More on the weekends

[rusnak]

First of all, I think we should clear some things up.

Many "illegals" are working here legally in agriculture, food service, hospitality, etc. Just because they are not American citizens does not automatically make them "illegal". They pay taxes, and employers take out witholding for SS, etc.

Many migrant workers also make far more than minimum wage. That is because they are paid by the piece, not by the hour. It is a fair system that compensates higher performance with higher pay, while paying less to the lazy unproductive worker. They are not stupid. They go where they will make the most amount of money.

If you work in ANY company that has minimum wage workers, then you will see less available to pay your raises, bonuses, etc when minimum wage is increased.

I have a crew of around 12 to 14 workers. Since we started over 4 years ago, I have paid over 14 raises. I have lost track of the number of bonuses. Probably 20 or so. Minimum wage was around $8 per hour. Everyone was making money, and our vendors were keeping their prices low enough to make everything make sense. This understanding that I will reward good employees with higher pay is an essential part of my business. The relationship with my best employees is what makes the company go.

Then last year the minimum wage went to $9. Everyone had to raise their prices. When the minimum goes up, your LEAST PRODUCTIVE EMPLOYEE, the one with zero experience, lazy, spends all day sitting around or on his cell phone, gets an automatic raise. This also raises payroll tax, insurance, and workman's comp.

Since last year, when the minimum wage went up, I have paid zero raises, and zero bonuses. Why? Because of the cascading effect of the mandatory minimum wage. If you notice, a #1 Value Meal at your favorite fast food joint is approaching $10 now.

So this fallacy that raising the mininum wage will give the entry level worker more money, or make him "feel like he has more money" is just flat out ridiculous. It's the type of idea that pops into the head of someone who has zero experience and just wants feel-good, no-think laws.

If you eliminate minimum wage, then the first thing that will happen is that inflation will drop. Then the lazy worker will realize that he's got to treat a job like a job, not as a right. And the best of the employee labor pool will be rewarded with the highest pay. If you eliminate government regulation in the labor market, the best will rise, and the worst will fall. Everyone is kept at a false equal as minimum wage increases. And we all pay for that.

[Blagave]

Higher minimum wage, means more payroll taxes for the government. I question the government watching out for the workers or there own pockets.