Is DE/AX/FunRally/PCA lifestyle shrinking or growing? (on a 5 year timeline)

[sugarwood]

I notice many DE threads in the archives from many years ago, but fewer from the present day.
It seems like there are fewer DE opportunities than in the past. Do you think DE is growing or shrinking?
It also seems like there were more "fun rally" type of events with date posts closer to 2010.

I also notice some posters aging out of the Porsche hobby. It's harder to say who is replacing them since people don't post their age when the introduce their first 911 purchase.

I know 911 prices have changed over the last 5 years, and that may also be a factor in any perceived change in headwinds.

Has anyone noticed any trends over the last 10-15 years this forum has been around ? Do you think the P-car hobby is growing or shrinking? Not on a macro 50 year time line, but on a 5 year timeline.

[cashflyer]

Do you think the P-car hobby is growing or shrinking?

Changing demographics. Ownership numbers, I would guess, stay relatively the same.
What people do with the cars changes.
Again, just a guess, but I think the newer owners have much less inclination toward wrenching. The smell of oil and grease probably is not as rewarding as the smell of a half-caf, double vanilla, soy latte; the sound of a well tuned exhaust note not as musical to their ear as teh 60hz hum of a fast-charger plugged in.

[Ayles]

Cost of parts and engine rebuilds are a lot more than they used to be. My father in-law did it all through the 70s 80s and 90s. Some of the cars and parts he had over the years have become extremely valuable and doubtful some of the early cars he had would see track duty these days.

[scottmandue]

But... fortunately there always seems to be a "red haired step child" for us low life's to get into the P-car game.
i.e. the 996 and Boxster.

[Evans, Marv]

Cashflyer mentioned part of it. Most younger people I've seen have no inclination to try to work on or fix anything at all - let alone tackle something on a car. My wife has nephews and nieces who don't care to know the inside workings of anything at all. I call them button pushers. I think those interested in DE's, AXing, and associated activities will soon be the rare exception. Add to that the fact the auto industry is making attempts to prevent people from working on their own cars and this becoming an inevitability, many of the activities we do & enjoy will cease to exist - maybe sooner than later.

[Cajundaddy]

I can't speak for other areas but in SoCal it's booming. 24 DE/TT events this year in SoCal/AZ/NV, dozens of tours and tech days, 3 regions are highly active with AX that draw 100+ cars every month. I am going to the PCA breakfast in Seal Beach tomorrow where there will be 50ish cars from every Porsche era. Things are quite active around here if you want to get involved and the club membership is growing.

[sugarwood]

Ouch, but it's not like the new guys here are asking about TV's in the headrests and cup holders.
It think newcomers here are still more likely to wrench than the average commuter car buyer.

[sugarwood]

Here is one anecdote that indicates the glory days of track racing hobby are over.
Miller Motorsports Park Closing Down In October

Also, I found out my local PCA chapter only has 1 DE day.
Meanwhile, people have barely gotten their cars out for Spring!

[onewhippedpuppy]

In my car buying and selling I'd say the average buyer's age is 40, many of which are buying their first Porsche. Some are wrenches, some are not. But frankly the average Porsche buyer is NOT a DIY type regardless of age. Just read through the tech forums on Pelican or Rennlist, most are simplistic questions from people with no mechanical experience. I think the demographics are evolving simply due to attrition and new members joining, but I don't think the type of member is really changing.

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

I can't speak for other areas but in SoCal it's booming. 24 DE/TT events this year in SoCal/AZ/NV, dozens of tours and tech days, 3 regions are highly active with AX that draw 100+ cars every month. I am going to the PCA breakfast in Seal Beach tomorrow where there will be 50ish cars from every Porsche era. Things are quite active around here if you want to get involved and the club membership is growing.

I agree. In Socal the DE scene is huge. Not just the PCA and POC, but Speedventures, Trackmasters, and other private groups are thriving.

I just ran with Speedventures at ACS Roval last weekend. Lots of Z06s and others, but there must have been 25 Porsches, and most were modern H20 pumpers. The Santa Barbara Region PCA holds several sold-out Auto-X events each year.

[GH85Carrera]

Our PCA region has one autocross per month all year. We run if the track is clear and dry. At 30 degrees it is much different experience than 105 degrees. Our region is a small one and we have three or four events every month.

[aschen]

Auto x in Houston is half of what it was 10 years ago

Lemons racing has been the goto drug for many of the car adicts I know

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by aschen

Lemons racing has been the goto drug for many of the car adicts I know

I think Lemons racing would be an absolute blast. I had fun during my decade of Porsche racing, but it puts a knot in my stomach to think about how much I spent. it's the racing part that's the rush, not the Porsche part.

[Nostril Cheese]

Strangely, the DE scene is huge in Portland/Seattle. I wouldnt have thought that.

[911SauCy]

IMO, the participation/activity is directly related to disposable income. As a 29 year old, would I like to hammer my 911 at a track day? You Bet! But, with a little one, another on the way and a new home...I can't afford to take the gamble, never mind just the cost of admission. Well, I can afford it but I choose not to, see "Living Beyond Your Means" thread.

Frankly, I'm also afraid of breaking the car. With parts costs skyrocketing if I break the car street driving, I look at it as another project that was coming my way regardless. If I'm knowingly thrashing the car and it breaks, I'm a glutton.

I'm apparently also one of few young guys who could care less about electronic mind gelling devices and want to learn as much as possible about mechanical things.

Although, perhaps I would be perceived as "cooler" if I walked around staring at my phone all day talking about the latest App or Tweet. (Is that what it's called?)

[Rot 911]

I think 911SauCy makes a good point. 10 years ago almost all of the air cooled 911's were relatively inexpensive cars to buy and maintain. It is a lot easier to justify thrashing a $12K car than it is a $30K car.

[onewhippedpuppy]

For somebody that wants to race, there are an abundance of $10k cars that would be great on a track. Boxster is one that's a no-brainer. I'm not afraid of the entry cost, I'm afraid of the RECURRING cost. Of course even if I was wealthy, with three young kids that are all involved in activities I couldn't race anyway. Probably why most of the avid racers I know are post-kids in their life.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

I think 911SauCy makes a good point. 10 years ago almost all of the air cooled 911's were relatively inexpensive cars to buy and maintain. It is a lot easier to justify thrashing a $12K car than it is a $30K car.

Totally. When I was playing with straight line American cars (pre 911) I would do everything I could to get to the drag strip and beat the brains out of my Buick or Camaro...because the most expensive thing to break was equivalent or less than a chain tensioner upgrade on the 911. (I mean beat. The Cameruh, I'd drive it there, bang that mother-effer off the 7k limiter on ET Streets, dump the clutch and keep the right-pedal on the floor all the way to the 1320. emm wer deh dayz)

Ok fine, I built a trans for my Buick that would hold 1,000ftlbs...it was $2800 But I was also unmarried, no mortgage, and making north of $75k.

To play, you've gotta have money to throw away.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I'm afraid of the RECURRING cost. Of course even if I was wealthy, with three young kids that are all involved in activities I couldn't race anyway. .

This

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Craig T

I think Lemons racing would be an absolute blast. I had fun during my decade of Porsche racing, but it puts a knot in my stomach to think about how much I spent. it's the racing part that's the rush, not the Porsche part.

I started doing DEs in 1993. Back then I could literally drive to the track, do a one day DE and drive back home for less than $100, including gas. Even 2-day PCA events at Road Atlanta, etc. were less than $500, including a hotel room. The last PCA DE I attended at Road Atlanta cost me over $1k with entry fees, hotel, gas, food, etc. It simply got too expensive for me.

So…now I'm doing ChumpCar racing. Real racing. Not cheap, but we're doing a couple of 14 hour endurance races per year for what I used to spend on 1 DE.

Like you said, racing is where it's at. PCA DEs, for me, was the camaraderie and fun cars and driving fast in a controlled environment. Real racing is a whole other level of excitement...