Question about concrete problems and builder liability

[Nickshu]

Hey guys, I have a question about builder liability/responsibility. My house built in (finished) Nov 2010 by a reputable local builder. The home had a 1 year home warranty which started when we closed on the house in May 2011, and ended May 2012. My concrete driveway and garage floor have since heaved up causing drainage issues. This has resulted in the concrete surface "spalling" off on the upper part of the driveway. I have had a respected concrete contractor look at it and was told it's because of poor workmanship when it was installed. Poor concrete mix and over-working of the concrete causing water to come to the top during setting.

Anyhow I am looking at having my driveway and garage floor removed, regraded, and redone. At this point is there any benefit in me contacting the builder about covering a portion of the costs? Or a waste of time? I assume at 4 years out they have no liability in it, but figured I'd ask the PPOT braintrust first.

[mattdavis11]

If you don't have proper drainage, the concrete is not going to cure properly. How does the new guy know what the previous guy did?

He jacks it out.

You might find a bunch of wood in the concrete, left overs from the build, as filler. Who knows.

[Evans, Marv]

Nick. I'm no expert in the legalities, but I certainly would explore the potential for the original contractor shouldering at least part of the cost. First, you probably already know - Document, document, and document. If it were me, I might put together a letter/form of some kind and ask whoever gives you an opinion if they would answer the questions on paper and sign it. I expect lots may decline to become involved, but it could be more ammunition if/when the time comes. You could have the concrete tested and compare the results with what was represented to you in whatever paperwork you might have from when you purchased the house. Others with lots more & better advice will likely chime in.

[porsche4life]

Was it a custom home or purchased from the builder in a development? The contract for those guys is pretty air tight. But read it over to see how long they will stand behind things. Sadly poor workmanship seems to be the name of the game in many communities. The emphasis being on how fast they can build them, not how well. . Our house was built in 01 and has some nice cracks in the driveway and garage as well. They just don't give the full dirt time to properly settle before they start building.

[look 171]

This will be a tough one getting anything out of the original builder but its worth a try. Poor workmanship for sure imo. How long has it collected water like that? Are there any rebars in the driveway? How about trees that can uproot it?

David here is the expert on that subject. He's the concrete contractor. I forgot his screen name.

[dennis in se pa]

Many contractors are quick to fault the work of others. Get a few opinions. Cracks in concrete are normal. Heaving is not. And surface issues could be the fault of the company that supplied the concrete. I would talk to them also.

[dad911]

Can you post some pics?

Is it just the top peeling, or is the 'heaving' actually the concrete raised up from frost?

[intakexhaust]

Doubt any recourse from the GC or the company who poured it. There's many factors of what might have caused it, but also the OP hasn't shown pics. No sense in outlining a problem list.

But for starters, he's in CO. Exactly when was the slab and then the drive poured? What season, what was the weather like during the pour and the following days? Did it cure too fast in heat? Not kept wet or moist enough during critical first week curing. Or did it freeze? No frost blankets? Did it rain heavily on it?

When did you first note of a potential problem?

What's the sub-base? Compacted + pea gravel, plastic laid? Fiber screened crete? Metal mesh used / rebar?

Drainage / sub and perimeter of any kind?

Long shot, but did you have a 40 footer moving truck parked on it? Believe me, have seen this more than once and trashed driveways because of. Homeowner then blames the contractor. Movers always reply with a 'screw you'.

Bottom line, you want it fixed. Bust it out, properly prep, confirm drainage, re-pour. Its going to cost big.

[rusnak]

Almost no one understands that the strength of pavement is derived from compaction, and how to achieve 99% compaction. They also don't understand the importance of grade from finish floor height. I agree pics are needed before commenting. BTW concrete now days is egregiously bad. I mean really really bad.

[trekkor]

1 year is a pathetic warranty for a home.

Here it's a mandatory 10 year, enforced by the Contractor License Board.

One year gets you through ONE season. Light rain/no hard freeze and problems might not appear at all.

Side point for extra credit:

I was aware of a tract home scam many years ago.
After inspection, the builder would move the rebar to the next property before pouring the concrete driveway.

Every driveway "passed" inspection, yet contained ZERO steel.

[stomachmonkey]

Colorado builder warranty seems to be a bit convoluted. There may be implied warranty beyond the 1 year the builder told you about.

Might be worth your time to do some research.

[chapo]

Warranty in California is one year only, construction defect is 10 years. Compaction is key for any concrete work. , 90 plus percent . Concrete raw materials are getting worse every year, " good" sand for example is hard to find. You should be able to get a compaction report from the builders soils engineer of record and concrete break tests from a deputy inspector on the job. If they don't have these for your areas in question then they probably didn't do them. The driveway may be considered hardscape and not covered. If the garage slab is not structural, then it could possibly be hardscape as well.

[drcoastline]

I can not speak to Colorado law but here in New Jersey we have what is know as a 2-10 warranty for all new construction. It covers construction defects.

The first two years are covered by the contractor, The eight year balance is ether covered through the state or an independent insurer. The cost of the waarnaty is pad for by the contractor.

I would look to see if Colorado has a similar warranty.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

I can not speak to Colorado law but here in New Jersey we have what is know as a 2-10 warranty for all new construction. It covers construction defects.

The first two years are covered by the contractor, The eight year balance is ether covered through the state or an independent insurer. The cost of the waarnaty is pad for by the contractor.

I would look to see if Colorado has a similar warranty.

I am a Builder in NJ. I believe the warranty coverage is similar, nationwide. The first year typically covers everything, the second year Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC, years 3-10 are strictly structural issues. It really isn't a warranty, but a guideline of when the homeowner takes over basic maintenance. The 'warranty companies' never fix anything, they arbitrate claims between builder & homeowner. Kind of a silly system, of hundreds of homes, only one claim and it went to arbitration. Arbitrator agreed with me and our method of repair, but in addition to paying for warranty, we had to pay the arbitrator.

OP should have received warranty book at closing outlining coverage.

[Nickshu]

[Nickshu]

[Nickshu]

Hey guys so photos above. It was a custom home but we were not involved with the build. Original prospective owners bailed out and the builder finished the house then put it on the market. My guess is that the driveway was poured in September or October 2010.

Garage door photo shows how it heaved. Note center of door hits the concrete and sides are open by about 3/4". Tough to get a good photo sorry. End result is water in the garage runs to the sides also pools at the areas noted in the scaling off areas.

[TimT]

That the concrete heaved is not the fault of the concrete, it caused by poor preparation of sub-base.. there maybe inadequate drainage of the sub-base which can cause heaving when cold,, and settling when warm,

The first two pictures you posted are classic photos of poor workmanship finishing the concrete.. masons often like to "bless" the concrete by taking a brush and broadcasting extra water onto the surface, to make it easier for them to close and finish the surface.. The term "bless" comes from the similarity to what a Priest does with the holy water during blessings...

The extra water added changes the water/cement ratio at the surface.... sure is looks nice... nice brushed texture.... in reality is is a weak layer that offers poor durability, as shown so perfectly in these photos...

At a minimum there are two causations for your problems, well actually one... poor preparation of the sub-base, poor work manship with concrete of questionable quality ( slump, air content)

Me just a nobody, ACI certified since 1982.. P.E. and all that crap...

[TimT]

Also hate to break this to you... the concrete slab might be fine... (except for the poor surface finish).... the house might be settling and upsetting the driveway at the garage entrance.... stranger things have happened...

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by TimT

Also hate to break this to you... the concrete slab might be fine... (except for the poor surface finish).... the house might be settling and upsetting the driveway at the garage entrance.... stranger things have happened...

+1
Chech your steps and any other areas where concrete may come in contact with your foundation for relative movement. I've seen this a lot. The house sinks and the steps/slabs float.