Austria F1 GP

[Deschodt]

Usual pre-GP thread...

Ferrari looking close in free practice but mechanical (gearbox) issues for VET...

Other than that, looks like Red Bull's Mateschitz is getting a bit of blowback from his disparaging comments on Renault ("taking our money and driving us out of F1", blah blah, his usual whining about not winning). The pundits all seem to take the side that Renault and Redbull won 8 championships together (with very little publicity for the engine manufacturer), and that public airing of dirty laundry is not very classy... I agree...

[motion]

I drove by the track yesterday. Thought I might buy a weekend ticket, but decided that I'd rather drive around the Alps then listen to those things. I miss the V10s.

[yellowperil]

Do you think Alonso is happy or pi**ed at being a McLaren driver? If it's the latter,
his history with the team probably didn't help much.

[MrAlien]

is Renault to blame for all of red bulls problems? there was a shot today during FP2 that showed all the red bull engineers in front of their screens, and next to them was another set of screens with engineers in Renault uniforms. I have never seen so many uniformed Renault engineers in the garage, let alone an extra set of screens just for them. something tells me that neither side of the red bull/ renault struggle trusts the other, why else would they have so many engineers on the ground monitoring and collecting data? Renault has also said recently that they are considering a works team, so they must have some confidence in their power unit.

of course the wager of the weekend for me, is who finishes better Manor or McLaren? my money is on Manor...

[GH85Carrera]

Just a short time ago if you bet me that two of the worlds best engineering companies, McLaren & Honda team up they would be an absolute JOKE of poor performance I would have taken the bet. It is just staggering. Both companies have been in a dominate position in the past. Now they are struggling to make another point to add to their whopping 4 points.

Much like Nissan's Nismo effort at Le Mans LPM1 this year just WTF were they thinking?

[DaveE]

Do the Renault engineers have to wear Infinity logos?

[GH85Carrera]

Doesn't Infinity or Nissan OWN Renault?

Edit:

Whoops, sorta the other way around.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault%E2%80%93Nissan_Alliance

[Deschodt]

That's the irony right there... Renault has won 4 WC and driver's championships with Red Bull (and countless before with Williams and Benetton) but nobody outside the sport knows. It was badged Infiniti. Marketing fallout = Zero. And granted it's largely their own fault for not doing it differently...

On the flip side, one bad season (well, 3 victories, not awful either), and so far, one even worse 1/2 season, and the marketing is in full swing the other way with RBR's owner throwing knife after knife at Renault's back. Honestly if I was Renault, I'd tell Red bull to go $%#$%$#% and hand them hand grenade motors at this point. No gratitude or grace despite all those championships together. But that's not surprising from a team that sells crappy drinks, they're not a real F1 team, never were... I have more respect for Manor than I do for RBR ! The fact that Toro rosso is kicking their ass tells me the car is not as good as it should be either !

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Just a short time ago if you bet me that two of the worlds best engineering companies, McLaren & Honda team up they would be an absolute JOKE of poor performance I would have taken the bet. It is just staggering. Both companies have been in a dominate position in the past. Now they are struggling to make another point to add to their whopping 4 points.

Much like Nissan's Nismo effort at Le Mans LPM1 this year just WTF were they thinking?

I've worked for both McLaren and Honda and have the nothing but respect for both companies, the people working there and the racing ethos that each company was founded and built on but the F1 game has changed beyond recognition since their dominating partnership many moons ago.

With the new era of power units that are complex beyond belief both in terms of design and the strategy required to get all the various systems talking to each other and working together I'm not surprised they are struggling. The rules also effectively tie one hand behind their backs by slowing them down in their tracks while they play catch up to the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari. The former are out in front due to the huge resource of 100's of engineers that were put into their power unit programme at the beginning and the latter playing a more aggressive approach to development over reliability since the change in senior management.

As for the Nissan LMP1 effort, this is a totally different ball game, I get the impression that Nissan is trying very hard to show how innovative that are and the racing results are secondary. There is a reason for the similar layout (excluding engine) of the Toyota, Audi and Porsche LMP1 cars and its due partly to the rules and partly to evolution. In designing a competitive race car there is no such thing as a 'magic bullet' this is a myth. The fastest cars are very similar in design to the slowest cars, the big difference with the fastest cars is that these teams have optimised more areas which work well together than the slower teams.

[javadog]

If you look at McLaren, they haven't really won as many (constructors) championships as you'd think, from their elevated status in the F1 arena. One, in the '70's, with a Cosworth. A couple with Porsche motors and 4 with Honda motors in the '80's era. One with Mercedes, in the '90's. You can throw a couple driver's championships in there, in years where they lost the constructor's title, but they haven't been as dominant in the last 20 years as Ferrari. Honda had limited success in their first foray into F1, then the later championships with McLaren, then nada.

Yeas, they are both good companies, but much of their success came at a time when one or two key people could make a big difference. Think back to the era of Barnard, Murray, etc. Even on the engine side, one guy could make a difference, like Metzger with the TAG engines.

These same guys could also get it badly wrong. Barnard made some beautiful cars for Ferrari, but most accomplished very little. Some were dogs. Metzger's second foray into modern F1 resulted in an expensive boat anchor. Still, those times were such that, if you ****ed up the design, you could at least go testing and develop your way out of the hole you were in. Usually...

Now, we're in an era where one guy doesn't count as much. Both teams still have good people, but Mclaren has lost a few in the last 2 or 3 years and then you have to wonder about Ron managing things again. He has his good points (I guess...) but I don't know if he really helps or hurts. McLaren has done some risky things in the last few years with their designs and not all of their ideas were good ones. Honda has no shortage of technology, but they have always used motorsports as a training ground for young engineers, so you have to ask yourself how deep their talent pool is. Experience counts for a lot, when you can't go testing. In this age, if you don't get it right on day one, you are in deep crap. Limited testing and development makes it very tough to recover. I'm sure there is a serious amount of politics behind the scenes, when deciding what is a change for performance, vs. what is a change for safety/reliability.

I have confidence in their ability to get things figured out but I wonder how much they will actually achieve, if the current rules remain in place for the next few years.

JR

[LeeH]

Any live streams?

[gorthar]

Was reading a bit ago that that both McLaren drivers were hit with a 25 grid spot penalty for changing various components in their 'power unit'. Since they are already starting so far back I understand they will also have to serve some kind of stop and go penalty to make up the difference.


McLaren calls for F1 engine penalty

[Flieger]

I think F1 has really screwed some things up. WEC is where it's at.

Why don't they take away manufacturer's championship points rather than grid penalties? That would make for a little bit better racing rather than having Button and Alonso being kicked while they are down with drive-through penalties.

Since the teams get paid for the points and not wins, the teams that use too many engines could loose the manufacturer championship and the teams would be loosing money same as if they lost the race, but at least the racing could be a little better.

Indycar gives points penalties for engines that don't reach lifetime goals.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by gorthar

Was reading a bit ago that that both McLaren drivers were hit with a 25 grid spot penalty for changing various components in their 'power unit'. Since they are already starting so far back I understand they will also have to serve some kind of stop and go penalty to make up the difference.


McLaren calls for F1 engine penalty

Do penalties carry to the following season? If so McLaren might be starting from pit lane until 2018

[gorthar]

It is is getting a bit ridiculous isn't it? This whole grid penalty for excessive component use is going to bite a few teams and end up a farce before the end of the season I predict.

Maybe McLaren can work something out with the stewards and start this race from the paddock?

[gorthar]

Haha even Bernie is getting in on the act of bagging on the current state of F1, and these hard to follow power unit restrictions:

Ecclestone struggling to sell crap product > F1 News > Grandprix.com

[nostatic]

I thought it was great that when Hamilton and then Rosberg screwed up the last lap, when the camera cut to Wolf and Lauda they both were smiling and I swear Lauda kinda laughed. They appreciate the fact that both guys were running balls-out. And props to Rosberg in the press conference for laughing about his off as well. He knew he was pushing and just got it wrong.

[Rtrorkt]

does anyone else think Diffey is just worthless?

[Deschodt]

I gotta say, I've mocked Maldonado as much as anyone, but he's been pretty decent lately. In the points, and exhibiting phenomenal car control... Still a bit of a mad dog (hence the need for car control in the first place), but Raikonnen was way more out of control this time ! Maldo's catch when passing Verstappen was pretty amazing, and after that brown pants moments, to still make the pass ? Nice! Other than that, I still wish WEC had races every other week end instead of F1 (coming from a 30y F1 fan, I'm getting dangerously bored). Those penalties piled on top of penalties are ridiculous, it takes an abacus to figure out the final grid.... I liked the twitter posts where they showed Button and Alonso starting from Salzburg instead of the grid - not that it mattered in the end !!!

I'd love to believe ROS can make this championship interesting, but unless HAM breaks a leg, not gonna happen. And I think we're seeing the last of Kimi this season (Bottas, Hulk, they have an embarassment of riches to choose from for much less$), so enjoy...

[yellowperil]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

I gotta say, I've mocked Maldonado as much as anyone, but he's been pretty decent lately. In the points, and exhibiting phenomenal car control... Still a bit of a mad dog (hence the need for car control in the first place), but Raikonnen was way more out of control this time ! Maldo's catch when passing Verstappen was pretty amazing, and after that brown pants moments, to still make the pass ? Nice! Other than that, I still wish WEC had races every other week end instead of F1 (coming from a 30y F1 fan, I'm getting dangerously bored). Those penalties piled on top of penalties are ridiculous, it takes an abacus to figure out the final grid.... I liked the twitter posts where they showed Button and Alonso starting from Salzburg instead of the grid - not that it mattered in the end !!!

I'd love to believe ROS can make this championship interesting, but unless HAM breaks a leg, not gonna happen. And I think we've seeing the last of Kimi this season (Bottas, Hulk, they have an embarassment of riches to choose from for much less$), so enjoy...

You make good points. Especially the penalties. They need to revamp somehow.