Considering a 3/4 Ton Diesel Tow Upgrade
 

We have a 2012 F150 SCrew 5.0 XLT 4x4 that's a really great truck. We bought it new and used it for truck stuff along with our family car for several years, and it was the primary tow vehicle for our 18' starter boat. My wife now has a Nissan Quest as our family truckster, and the truck is largely only used for truck stuff and the tow vehicle for our 23' boat. It pulls the boat at highway speeds, but the 6500 lb load and high drag reveal the one weak spot about the 5.0 - it makes torque fairly high for a truck. After a while it gets old on the highway, as the speed drops down nearly 10 MPH then the transmission drops from 6th to 3rd to power up the grade. I'm also planning another boat upgrade in the near future, which should only serve to make the issue worse. I need torque dammit!!!

So I'm kicking around a truck upgrade to either a 2012-ish F250 or Sierra Denali, either in diesel form. Obviously I really can't take either on a tow test drive, so I'm looking for feedback. Will either of them pull my 6500 lb of boat/trailer like it's not even there? For those that tow with similar trucks, what sort of towing MPG do you see? Any reason why I would be disappointed with the upgrade?

If it's a SRW 3/4 ton, you'd be at approx. half of its towing capacity with a 6500 boat and trailer. I can't say that you won't know it's back there but it's the right tool for the job. They drive pretty darn good empty as well. :)

I have a 1999 Powerstroke F250 4x4 with 235,000 miles and just got back from vacation on Friday. We pulled our 30' travel trailer loaded down with food, water, clothes, bedding and drinks along with a pickup truck bed full of bicycles and campfire wood and 4 people and 3 dogs. The empty truck weighs 7100 lbs, and the empty trailer weighs 7500 lbs, so add at least 1000 lbs to each. We went 450 miles most of which was fully loaded and averaged 14 MPG (first tank was 289 miles divided by 20.4 gallons) and had plenty of power to merge and stay with 70 mph traffic.

I had thought of "upgrading" to a newer gas v-8 1/2 ton pickup truck, but lets face it, I won't get better mileage, torque, or power than my old diesel from virtually any gas motor. In the last 6 months, I have rented a small trackhoe, and a full sized bobcat for helping to build our new barn, and just brought home 350 80lb bales of hay in one trip on two hay wagons, and in the bed of the truck (28,000 lbs of hay without the weight of the truck and hay wagons.

All of this means that I will buying another diesel truck (hopefully a nice used 06-07 with the more powerful diesel.

If you are looking at the new Ford diesel 6.7, it has 440 HP and 860 lb ft of torque (nearly twice what my truck is rated) that is a towing monster !

I just sold my parents tow rig, a 1999 F250 Superduty with the 7.3 Powerstroke.
It was stock never chipped and would pull their 26 foot fifth wheel effortlessly.
We were all going to camp in BC and left town heading into a big headwind. I couldn't keep my old Jeep truck in 5th gear on the flats hauling my little pop up camper. My parents caught up with me hauling their trailer and I dropped in behind and drafted them at 75 mph for the first 70 miles.
I think in stock form it was 250 hp and 550ft.lbs of torque.
Someone got a great deal on the truck as it had only around 70,000 miles on it.

Thanks for the feedback guys, I appreciate it. I really want a Raptor but they just aren't set up for towing, and I considered an Ecoboost F150 but don't think it will give me the upgrade I want. Seems like a vehicle that mostly gets used for towing should be optimized for that purpose.

I favor Chevy due to better steering feel and rock solid transmissions. I have not driven the latest models though so things may have changed. Buy enough truck to do the job and use all of the transmission when needed. Modern trucks all have OD which is useless when towing, and I tend to shift manually while climbing grades to keep the truck in optimum torque range. The only way to haul heavy loads IMO. I use "drive mode" on level ground or tooling around unloaded.

my brother and i got a bug to bass fish several lakes. we drove all over NM, AZ towing a fully loaded bass boat with the Duramax.

there is a big steep grade up to Truth or Consequences. you come down this hill and it just stares back at you taunting you with promises of gravity themed nightmares. it is long. you come ripping down that adjacent hill with cruise control..start going up the big hill. nothing changes! no downshifting, no RPM jumps. just blaaaaaaaaaa...up that hill, AC blasting cold air. zero fanfare. no excitement.

when we were younger, we would have to sprint down the steep hill to get a big running start up the other side. fun.

I never thought I'd hear about Truth or Consequences again! We did a bunch of flight testing out of Truth or Consequences. Probably the coolest name ever for a town.

Ha TOC! I have been there! That's where it is HAPPENING! :)

I should buy your old F150, Matt! Maybe with a 996TT in tow as a package deal! Is KS a rust place?

I am just knee deep in my wife's sequoia - timing belt - and not really liking it. At 225k miles every bearing on the accessory belt assembly is loose and making noises. I have to replace all of it, along with a full timing belt / water pump / tensioner kit. I'll be $500 into it just on the front of the engine. Suspension looks tired to ... that I may be able to pass on to the next owner. Selling it with an overdue timing belt is not wise financially, even though it is a $4500 truck by now.

G

George it's a damn nice truck, and no we don't have rust issues in KS. We bought it brand new so it's had an easy life. Synthetic every 5k since new with records, has a little over 50k now. Bilstein 5100s make it ride really well, it has slightly larger 33" BFG AT tires on Raptor wheels, a Raptor cat back for just a little more burble, 20% tinted windows, Weathertech floor liners, and 5-Star tunes on a SCT tuner for a little more pep and much better shift logic. No accident or paint work. It's a fully loaded XLT with rear camera, backup sensors, Sync, tow package, power driver's seat, 4x4 with locking rear diff, power sliding rear window, chrome package, and pretty much everything else you can get on an XLT.

Just sold our 08' Chevy with the Duramax/Allison combo, what a truck! It didn't know that hills were there towing big trailers or boats. Can't go wrong with diesel if you are towing.

2001 f350 diesel. not dd. it drags a trailer mini excavator etc, hauls, pushes snow and salts.
60000 miles, perfect to date. Rides decent as well.

Richard

I have had to lease and buy a lot of heavy duty trucks for my business. I dont like the GMs (Chevy/GMC) I had to many issues with transmissions when hauling through the mountains. lately I have been using fords 2500 and 3500, they get the job done even with the automatics. but my favorite is still the dodge with the manual box, not the best looking or most comfortable, but in my opinion the beast hauler.

I need to do some in-person shopping. Based on looking at pictures the back seat in the GMC/Chevy is amazingly small, the Dodge is still smaller than my F150, and the F250 looks similar. I'm shocked that my 1/2 ton F150 crew cab has bigger back seats than any of these behemoths. For a truck that always gets used with the seats full (3 kids), having interior space is a big deal.

I,ve only had 2 diesel trucks a leased 2005 F250 4x4 (which blew it,s trans at less than 20,000 mi after I got stuck in mud,the case cracked)
It never got very good mileage even empty it was about 15 mpg and quickly dropped even when only loaded with a slide in camper.
The other was a 2004 Dodge 2500 4x4. and my favourite. Although the F250 had a nicer cabin
I put about 120,000 mi on it ,with only routine maintenance.
It got much better mileage ,about 19-20 unloaded.
I once towed a 34 ft sailboat on a triple axle trailer (loaded was about 15,000 lb and needed wide load permits and a CVL). Towed across 4 states and still managed about 9 mpg.
Both have now updated versions of the diesels available then and the Dodge has the super size cab available.

Matt, look at the Dodge Megacab. The Cummins diesel is still the one to have, and the newer dodge trucks are getting better. The megacab is palatial, with plenty of room for the kiddos, unless you plan on having more. ;)

I've had a few diesel PU's over the years but got away from them these last 5 years or so because we weren't towing the really heavy stuff ( landscape equipment trailers ). The Ford F250 5.4 Triton
is a good fit for us. However, I recently picked up a 1992 Dodge, Gen 1 diesel. It's a awesome truck, I won't let anyone else drive it if I can help it. 115,000 original miles, original owner and all the records since day one.

1973 911 T MFI Coupe, Aubergine

Steve

Yeah you do need more torque.

I've had diesel truck envy for a while now. I have an old Chevy 1-ton flatbed that I bought super cheap from a guy who had a new motor, rear end, tranny etc installed. It's been bulletproof, and really easy to work on. But when I see how easily diesel 3/4 ton truck pull, I do get to wondering.

We have a 2001 F350 4x4 diesel, and have had to replace the transmission, front wheel bearings, all the pads/rotors, calipers, lots of etc. However, we'd never trade or sell it for anything! Hauls track car, big camper, etc., 75mph down the highway. So, bottom line, research the year truck you want, and get the service history. And, expect to spend money on it.

For the Super-Duty Diesel, go for a 2011 or later. It does require DEF, but it also has improved mileage by about 20% over the 2010.

I've had both the F250 and F350. When not towing, the F350 rides higher and has a stiffer ride. I can only speak of the Lariats. The in cab engine noise is almost non-existent.

Another semi-related question, does anyone have experience towing with an F150 Ecoboost? I know it's not a diesel, I'm just curious if that would give me an adequate bump over the 5.0 in tow performance?

Love my 1991.5 Dodge Ram intercooled Cummins diesel. A lot of the stability when towing with the diesels comes from the towing vehicle being so heavy. My truck has so many miles on the original engine and automatic - neither opened up. Piecing together the mileage from receipts and estimates (odometer was changed before I bought it) means I should be over half a million miles. Now tires...I have replaced those puppies.

Silly question, can you just slow down a bit when towing? I'd hate to shuttle around a 3/4t just so you can tow your boat a little faster 6-8 times/year. I'm all for upgrading but the rig you have does seem like a great compromise for some mid level towing and family hauling.

The only problem with the Dodge Mega cab is that you can't get an eight foot bed with that cab configuration. I looked at them and it ended up being a deal breaker for me.

I have a 2012 F350 crew cab, full size bed with the Powerstroke, XLT FX4 package. Pretty much the same as a King Ranch minus the baseball glove leather. My previous tow rig was an Excursion, and the suspension just wasn't up to the task of my camper which is about 12,000 pounds fully loaded (bumper pull toy hauler with a Razr and motorcycles, gear, water fuel, etc), coupled with the problematic 6.0 Powerstroke, I sold it at the right time.

I love it, and have 38,xxx miles on it without any issues. I have towed about 5,000 miles total, most in the mountains of Colorado, including a few trips to eastern KS to hunt. If the weather is bad I drive it to work or the airport, and while parking is sometimes a pain it doesn't bother me, just have to plan ahead. Lately I don't drive it as much. If the tank is close to empty is does bounce on the highway some if the road is rough, if its smooth it is a very comfortable vehicle to ride in.

Mileage has varied from as low as about 11 going up into the mountains getting on it (to stay at 70 mph while towing) to over 20 when its empty and just cruising down the interstate. I'd say 17-18 is a good average. I lost a few mpg when I got rid of the stock tires for some better M+S ones.

By no means is it a good 4wd vehicle though, with the weight and length..... ask me how i know :(

In KS I would guess you will barely feel it back there, except for in the cross winds etc.

I do apologize as well Matt, my boss retired out of the blue after 32 great years with our company a few weeks ago, so i decided it wasn't a good idea to buy a new fun car until things settled down. I am glad to see you sold the TT and am leaning that way instead of the Mustang, just want to get back into another turbo but I will let you know.

Bill



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1435642783.jpg

So, those are good engines now? I got really scared after those 6.0 horror stories ...

I still like the noise the Fords make and their looks. Used to have an 01 Excursion Diesel. Loaded. Sigh ...

G

My 1996 Silverado 1 ton dually 4x4 rides like a dream. I love the 8 foot bed and at 280,000 miles she still purrs like a kitten. The newer diesels are much more expensive to repair or maintain. My research indicates that the Cummins engines are still the best package. My truck tows 10,000 lbs. at about 13 -14 mpg, and 20,000 + lbs. at down to 8 mpg. Unloaded she does about 20 mpg. Its real old tech. Talk to the Dodge drivers. One of my friend's son has now purchased over 50 of the Dodges for his transport bus. and drives them all over 500,000 miles. Torque, torque, torque is what a hauler needs.

Bill, no worries about the TT, it sold last week. I'll still make you a good deal on the GT500.:)

Actually the F150 can still maintain highway speed limits with our boat, it just requires quite a bit of downshifting due to the engine's higher torque peak. But a boat upgrade will require a truck upgrade as well, I don't like pushing my luck with tow limits. There's an element of want here as well, I've always loved diesels in a truck.

2011+ is a 6.7 that is a Ford design. I haven't heard any horror stories about them like the old Navistar 6.0. 400 HP and 800 lb-ft of torque.:eek:

There it is, get the diesel. The big 3 are all good trucks now, if spendy.

The International engine was a good engine, but the "systems" Ford put in around it to make emissions were not so good. The all Ford engine seems to be better. More HP, more torque and better mileage.

Bill. so you're a fan of KUIU?

Unless I was towing really heavy most of the time I wouldn,t get a diesel again.
Much higher cost for oil changes,tires brakes etc and fuel is more expensive wiping out any better mpg advantage,.
How many miles do you expect to tow anyway?
I have a 2012 F150 5.0 ,shortbox reg cab and understand the lack of low rpm torque BUT in regular day to day use it,s fine. I have towed my boat (about 3500 lb) across country I think with the tow pkg mine is rated at about 6500lb (down because of the short wheelbase, same engine is rated up to about 9000 with a long wheelbase.). I would still feel comfortable up to max, but towing at max is always a drag. You should be able to at least test drive an ecoboost F150 and feel the torque difference.

What about the new half ton dodge diesel Matt? Would that have enough Grunt?


Of course if you get a bigger boat, the bigger truck will handle the weight and stopping the big beast better....

I would go for the Duramax.
Buddy has one, it has performed flawlessly, for 6 years and counting.

I am Vash, have a bunch of it and it has held up nicely.

You?

Love the stuff!! the ATTACK pant is the best thing ever. they are located near me, so i have the luxury of going in and buying things. the pants are not holding up in AZ with the thorns, but not much does.

great store. i ALWAYS ask the cashier, "so..are there any coupon codes floating around?"..i am 100% in getting 20% off. hahaha.

Nice!!!!

The new Sitka Grinder pants are great too. I wear the solid color ones while traveling.

I agree on the attack pant...

Bill

My wife parental locked Sitkas website. :)


Sent via Jedi mind trick.

Have towed enclosed car trailer (Jimglo w/ 3000lb car. Maybe 5500-6000lb total) with the ecoboost F150. In comparison to a 5.4L Expedition, its better. Power is decent, highway performance is decent. The trans doesn’t hunt. Gas mileage is decent. I like the built in brake controller. Its nice. I’ve never had the opportunity to tow anything with a ¾ ton, so can’t compare there.

What percentage of time will you be towing? Consider the time you aren’t towing, and the extra girth of the vehicle when maneuvering parking lots, and harsher ride.

My F250&F350 we're _LESS_ wide when parked than a F150! I'm talking about the mirrors. On the F250/350, they fold flat against the door. Not so on the F150. I can park my F350 in my carport. The mirrors on the F150 will make it not fit.

From the reading the feedback on this forum, it sounds like the Ecoboost has much more towing power than the Ram Ecodiesel. I think it's tuned for MPG, not towing.

Unfortunately the back seats are tiny compared to the other options.

Moving forward the truck will be almost entirely a tow vehicle, or used for hauling home improvement stuff.