Customer coming after me for 7 year old work

[GDNF2ET]

I have been doing carpentry work for this guy for 7-8 years.. Last job I did was within the last 12 months... I installed crown molding in his den 7 years ago.. He called me today to say there was a leak in the wall from a nail that hit the AC pvc drain in the wall, SEVEN YEARS AGO !!...The wall is suppose to have a metal plate that covers exposed pipes so drywall nails do not hit the pipes.. There was none there....The wall is opened up, and my nail did hit the pipe.... His homeowners will pick up after $1200, and probably go after me..
The homeowner wants me to bid on the trim repair work too.... I don't know who to call, or what to do next... There will be a plumber, sheet rock repair, crown, base, chair rail, floating floor, and paint people involved in this repair.... I'm thinking $2000- 3500 may be the final bill...

What obligation do I have ? If I call my Liability Insurance, it is likely to go up forever, just for a claim being talked about....

[John Rogers]

All your questions should be covered in the documentation that covers your licensing and insurance. If you live somewhere that does not require a license for your line of work and/or insurance...........I'dd seek out a lawyer.

[GDNF2ET]

I have the proper licensing and liability insurance, although my insurance isn't with the same company now.... I have never made a claim, and the cost remain the same... $495 year ..

[wdfifteen]

This is crazy.
It comes down to:
1. This is the AC installer's fault because he didn't put a plate in front of the drain line
2. This is the carpenter's fault because he didn't tear the wall down to look for unprotected electrical/plumbing lines in order to guarantee no damage before driving a nail
3. Home owner is trying to find someone else to pay for a guarantee he wouldn't have paid for 7 years ago.
I wish you well. Honestly, I don't know if the homeowner is a dickhead or just doesn't understand the reality of doing rework on an old home.

[look 171]

Go after the AC guy due to the lack of nail plate (if you want a fight). Is it code in your city? I know you had no way of knowing that there's condensation drain pipe in there. Not fair, but people don't see it that way until it goes to court. that's a lot of BS to go through.

Reconnecting PVC pipe is a 3 min job especially if its only an AC drain with no pressure. Can you patch drywall? Can a painter take care of the trim? Its only water and may need a little sanding and a coat of paint on the wall and trim. What do you mean floating the floor? Is it a wood floor? 3k sounds about right.

[look 171]

Now that I have some time to think about it, leakage usually wouldn't come through that nail hole, again there's no pressure. A little seepage through the nail, but it will seal itself up due to calcification. If it does come through there, it would do that kind of damage all the way to the floor and ruin the chair rail. Owner should have known and seen the damage a long time ago ans call someone for the repair. Bubbling on the wall should have been the first sign of water damage or issue. Its noticeable.

From my experience, those goddamnHVAC guys always install that drain pipe so long that they neither sag, or slopping backward causing the pan to overflow causing damage under it. I bet that's what's going on. I go up and check it myself. No way a finish nail hole can do that much damage all the way down to the floor unless its gushing and we both know that doesn't happen.

Jeff

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by look 171

Now that I have some time to think about it, leakage usually wouldn't come through that nail hole, again there's no pressure. A little seepage through the nail, but it will seal itself up due to calcification. If it does come through there, it would do that kind of damage all the way to the floor and ruin the chair rail. Owner should have known and seen the damage a long time ago ans call someone for the repair. Bubbling on the wall should have been the first sign of water damage or issue. Its noticeable.

From my experience, those goddamnHVAC guys always install that drain pipe so long that they neither sag, or slopping backward causing the pan to overflow causing damage under it. I bet that's what's going on. I go up and check it myself. No way a finish nail hole can do that much damage all the way down to the floor unless its gushing and we both know that doesn't happen.

Jeff

Good points and unless the pipe has been removed easy enough to prove.

Pour some water down the drain pipe and see what, if anything, comes out.

[intakexhaust]

Take a hard stance. HVAC installer fault for lack of pipe shield. Then its covered up with wall board. How would a trimmer know whats under there and no detector available is going to sense that PVC?

Flat out refuse to absorb the cost of repair. Then again, how bad do you want this guys business in the future? If he has any common sense, he'd understand your advice. So in that regards, to me he sounds like an unreasonable cheap bastard.

[billybek]

Ya. Those damn A/C guys...

Hey, wait....

Sucks that the owner is coming after you after this much time.
Unless you were putting crown on with framing spikes I can't see this being your fault.

[MikeSid]

Statute of limitations. Discovery rule.
This is a claim by the homeowner for a construction defect. It's either a claim for breach of the contract for services or negligence in performance of the work. But in either case, without application of the discovery rule, the statute of limitation has likely run.

In the event the discovery rule applies, the limitation period would begin to run from discovery fo the defect. Since this is hidden in the wall, it's possible that rule could apply. But as Jeff said, evidence of the defect would be pretty apparent rather quickly.

Sure this might be someone else's fault for not putting a nail plate over the pipe when framing. But don't even go there. Whoever's fault it may have been is probably off the hook for liability since it has been so long.

Check your local statute of limitations for contract and negligence, but I'd be surprised if either is for greater than 5-6 years.

[GDNF2ET]

There was a large cabinet in the corner.. The paint began to bubble up at the chair rail, because of the dampness... That is a good point about the pan may have overflowed.. A pin hole with a finish nail still in it, in a vertical pipe, can't cause but so much damage...

[Rick Lee]

Something similar happened in our house when I was a kid. The finishing nail pretty much sealed up the leak it caused. But after a few years it rusted away and then the pipe started to drip. The builder came out and fixed it. I think it was about four yrs. after the house had been built.

[GWN7]

Someone didn't do their job, either the hvac guy or the drywaller should have installed the protective plates. If his insurance comes after you it's only because your the last man standing. If they do come after you just deny any claim. Wasn't your job to have installed the plates. It was the general contractors fault for not inspecting the work the hvac guy did.

One other thing to think about as you changed insurers they might not cover you for something that happened when you were not their client.

[LWJ]

The Oregon statute of repose gives 10 years. Washington is 6. Check the law in the state of this work.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by GWN7

Someone didn't do their job, either the hvac guy or the drywaller should have installed the protective plates. If his insurance comes after you it's only because your the last man standing. If they do come after you just deny any claim. Wasn't your job to have installed the plates. It was the general contractors fault for not inspecting the work the hvac guy did.

One other thing to think about as you changed insurers they might not cover you for something that happened when you were not their client.

Drywaller don't put nail plates on. You are lucky if they put that nail through and hit a stud. Inspector should have caught that. If there's a general contractor, he felt asleep. They found an opening and drilled through, ran that pipe after rough electrical and plumbing inspection passed. They point fingers at the OP is because they found his nail in there. Still, I call BS if that much water came out of that little hole. GDNF2ET, you might want to find out if the HVAC drain line is put on after the close of drywall in a much later date after occupancy. If the owner says yes, then the owner is on the hook if this thing gets big because he's responsible for the HVAC installers to install that nail plate. He basically dug a hone and let you fall into it.

We've install miles of crown molding over the years, some really big ones too. I have always been afraid to hit something like that. Good thing is that if we hit a wire or pipe, we can fix it right before the house burns to the ground and before the owners come home. Notice all the burn marks on your ceiling Jim Richards? Now we know where those pipes and wires are because we are the ones installing all of them and protect them like heck with millions of nail plates. Cheap and easy insurance. We no longer just do finish carpentry for other builders or home owners for this very reason. I really hope you fight and explain things to the owner and that he's not an unreasonable bone head so you can get off the hook on this BS. Let us know how it goes.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by LWJ

The Oregon statute of repose gives 10 years. Washington is 6. Check the law in the state of this work.

Brand new construction, not remodel?

[John Rogers]

Here is the VA reference:
http://www.uslaw.org/files/public/Virginia_construction_10.pdf

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by look 171

Now that I have some time to think about it, leakage usually wouldn't come through that nail hole, again there's no pressure. A little seepage through the nail, but it will seal itself up due to calcification.

Jeff

Calcification from AC condensate?

[wdfifteen]

I just had to deal with two cases of condensate leaks. One AC in a tenants unit and one dehumidifier in both cases the drain line was clogged with lizard snot (Sorry, I don't know the proper term for that slimy mold that grows in these drains) and in both cases the drain backed up until the water was leaking out of a defect in the drain. So the leak could be caused by improper maintenance ie not keeping the drain clear.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Calcification from AC condensate?

ok,ok, it was a long shot, or no shot at all. But I do know this, they are always clogging up with "stuff".