"Expensive new car means expensive used car maintenance costs"

[sugarwood]

The big thing to keep in mind is that they, (like 911s), were originally designed for very affluent buyers who could afford to drop them off at the dealer for some expensive maintainance on a regular basis. They are not good shade tree fiddle around on cars.

This was said in the MB 560SL thread. It's an accepted universal truth, but is it more nuanced?

This might be a stupid question. Just because a car is expensive, does it automatically mean it has higher maintenance costs?
Was it designed to have more expensive maintenance?

What if Honda overnight changed the price of an Accord to $100,000? Would this now be a $100k car that requires $100k caliber service? Would we now say, "This is a $100k car, so be prepared to maintenance that reflects the price". No.

So, what is it about an expensive car that directly translates to higher maintenance costs? Are there empirical and quantifiable differences that truly do result in higher maintenance costs? I can see a $100k performance car having racing parts that cost more. But labor should be similar. Or, maybe expensive cars are, by definition, more complex, and therefore have more repairs down the road? Are there expensive cars that are built more simply? Other things might require downstream less maintenance, like superior paint or sheet metal. After all, don't expensive things last longer?

I'm just wondering if it's not as simple as, "This was $100k new, so it will be 4x more expensive to maintain than a $25k car"

[Chocaholic]

Short answer: no.

Luxury/sports cars are profit leaders for manufacturers. This applies to lots of products. Service is no different.

[kach22i]

I think in general, lower number of production cars mean higher parts costs (ie Isuzu VehiCross), just goes along with rarity or availability.

Also, models which bring in big bucks for the parent company (ie Ford Explorer) get rewarded with better engineering (bigger budgets and more time to get it right) than other models.

Something to be said for running with the pack.

Porsche doesn't run with the pack, and I hope never will.

[RANDY P]

rarity.

expensive cars cost more to maintain since there just isn't as much exposure to them, so the market is limited. Keeps prices high.

rjp

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Short answer: no.

Luxury/sports cars are profit leaders for manufacturers. This applies to lots of products. Service is no different.

Toyota 3rd generation MR-2 most certainly did not get the engineering budget of their small pick up truck line.

No company is going to sink big bucks into a small production high profile loss leader unless it is a legacy product like the Corvette.

Corvette gets them into the dealership, they walk out with a Camaro. Therefore the Vette pulls it's own weight.

[speeder]

The cost of maintaining any machine is a function of use, how robust the various components are and the engineered longevity of consumable parts divided by its complexity. Then, you factor in the number of said machine originally sold and the competitiveness of the aftermarket parts for it and Voila!- cost to maintain.

[GH85Carrera]

I would think the biggest difference is the features that come standard on an expensive car.

Look at a Mercedes S class car. All sorts of features were first ever seen on an S class Mercedes. The more features and doo dads the more to maintain.

I can say with 100% certainty that my 911 will never have a leaking power steering pump, never have a failure in the ABS systems, The keyless entry system is 100% solid as is the traction control system and it never needs maintenance of any sort and I never have problems with the tire pressure monitoring computer.

Traction control is a mandated feature as well as tire pressure monitoring on the cheapest cars sold in the USA now.

[VincentVega]

Service is no different.

Except when there is more crap to break. Cheaper cars usually dont have integrated xyz, seat heaters, power everything that breaks. Combine complexity, age, high parts prices and when something breaks it will be $$.

Routine fluid and filter changes are simple, its the hvac control module, since separate controls are high end, or the fancy auto-magical fluid suspension that will hurt.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I would thing the biggest difference is the features that come standard on an expensive car.

Look at a Mercedes S class car. All sorts of features were first ever seen on an S class Mercedes. The more features and doo dads the more to maintain.

I can say with 100% certainty that my 911 will never have a leaking power steering pump, never have a failure in the ABS systems, The keyless entry system is 100% solid as is the traction control system and it never needs maintenance of any sort and I never have problems with the tire pressure monitoring computer.

Traction control is a mandated feature as well as tire pressure monitoring on the cheapest cars sold in the USA now.

Exactly.

A lot also has to do with how the manufacturer designed the car to be worked on and serviced. Since a luxury car isn't trying to eek out the most MPG, it often has a larger less aerodynamic body, this can make access to work on the car easier. A luxury high performance car on the other hand, may be hell.

Labor rates will be roughly fixed reguardless of brand, or expense when new, the amount of hours required will vary with the design. Part expenses will vary based on the support tree, and complexity of parts.

Porsche 944 early wheel offset, can run VW front control arms, this keeps the parts cost in that area extremely low as its shared by many cars. The alloy suspension arms on a 997 911, could run you a few thousand to replace a set in contrast.

[speeder]

The other thing, (and this should be obvious), is that companies like Toyota, Honda and the newer Korean makes have a mission philosophy built around making the most dependable and low maintenance vehicles possible. They have excellent engineering staffs tasked with that mission and they succeed.

German high end luxury and sports cars are designed and built with a completely different goal. Performance is everything and if that means expensive brake pads that last 8k miles, so be it. This gets even more pronounced on the elite models like BMW M-cars and AMGs but you get the picture.

In the case of older MB cars, (like the one my quote in OP refers to), the German philosophy applies but the vehicle is very old technology and not terribly sophisticated or complex. They sold zillions of them and the aftermarket for regular maintenance parts has factories in China running 3 shifts a day. Brake jobs are cheap on an old 107 SL but the car was still built with the German rather than Asian philosophy, maximum performance rather than low maintenance within the constraints of its ancient engineering.

[speeder]

We were all typing at the same time.

[aschen]

There are exceptions, for example Id buy a 10 year old landcrusier with 100k miles on it no problem, even though it was 75k new. Also, I can but a complete engine and transmission for my exige for less than the price of a top end on a 911.

However, I think heavily depreciated technology laden European cars are a bit too risky for my appetite.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by speeder

We were all typing at the same time.

Ditto

[Steve Carlton]

Expensive cars generally have more expensive parts, but the identical parts can often be found for other makes less expensively.

[intakexhaust]

Rarity has nothing to do with it. There's exceptions but firstly, taking any vehicle of make or model, out of warranty or owner pay maintenance is going to cost at a dealer. GM is horrible. Example: Millions of vans made but a little cast pot-metal incorporated into a door handle is a common break item. $200 plus for the handle + 2 hr. labor.

So one has a 560SL. Aftermarket normal wear and tear parts are reasonable. Go to Autozone for your reman's, electrical, starters, brake pads, coolers, rad's and DIY. LIFETIME WARRANTY. Get the workshop PDF for free or order from your local library and keep borrowing it or as needed. I know a kid who has a clean but high mile 560SL w/ hard top, picked up for $2,800. He put a little time in it and a thorough sorting out. Apparently its been trouble free for 4 or 5 years and he loves it. Even if the fuel economy stinks, over those 5 years its ultra cheap and nice transportation.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

Rarity has nothing to do with it. There's exceptions but firstly, taking any vehicle of make or model, out of warranty or owner pay maintenance is going to cost at a dealer. GM is horrible. Example: Millions of vans made but a little cast pot-metal incorporated into a door handle is a common break item. $200 plus for the handle + 2 hr. labor.

So one has a 560SL. Aftermarket normal wear and tear parts are reasonable. Go to Autozone for your reman's, electrical, starters, brake pads, coolers, rad's and DIY. LIFETIME WARRANTY. Get the workshop PDF for free or order from your local library and keep borrowing it or as needed. I know a kid who has a clean but high mile 560SL w/ hard top, picked up for $2,800. He put a little time in it and a thorough sorting out. Apparently its been trouble free for 4 or 5 years and he loves it. Even if the fuel economy stinks, over those 5 years its ultra cheap and nice transportation.

Why do people pay huge money to maintain air-cooled 911s, and whatnot? Not like those are (usually) complicated.

Rarity has everything to do with it. Your 560SL only got Autozone parts AFTER they depreciated to the DIY crowd. If no one knows anything about them, the ones that do charge more.

Fact of life.

[aigel]

A lot of work typing, trying to generalize ...

I think in general, the more $$$ when new, the more $$$ it is to keep it going later on.

G

[speeder]

One important issue regarding the maintenance of anything these days is the declining quality of replacement parts. Anyone who maintains a Mercedes-Benz with Autozone parts is a fool and is believing a false economy. The correct, OEM parts are very cheap and even those have taken a major dump in quality due to globalization, etc. Virtually nothing is made in Germany or other highly industrialized countries anymore. Some of the most (formerly) trusted names in European parts have changed ownership several times and are a shadow of their former self in terms of quality.

Even still, these diminished "European" parts are head and shoulders above parts from Autozone. The reason that everything from Autozone has a lifetime warranty is because the parts are made by nutless monkeys in a bathtub in Tijuana and it is cheaper for them to just keep giving you another one than to pay someone more than 50 cents an hour to make the part. I buy lots of oil and drain pans at AZ, not hard parts.

[RANDY P]

Speaking of MBZ parts-

anyone found a source for new window switches that aren't garbage?

rjp

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by speeder

The other thing, (and this should be obvious), is that companies like Toyota, Honda and the newer Korean makes have a mission philosophy built around making the most dependable and low maintenance vehicles possible. They have excellent engineering staffs tasked with that mission and they succeed.

German high end luxury and sports cars are designed and built with a completely different goal. Performance is everything and if that means expensive brake pads that last 8k miles, so be it. This gets even more pronounced on the elite models like BMW M-cars and AMGs but you get the picture.

What he said, Your run of the mill Japanese/Korean automobile main selling point is reliability, add to that they are produced by the hundreds of thousands so parts are abundant and cheap.
High performance cars are lower production and thus parts may not be as easy to find, supply and demand. Add to that in high performance cars weight is the enemy so parts may not be so robust.
Just IMHO of course...