C 130 Question, for experts.

[afterburn 549]

The short, - What is red line for speed for a C 130? (Net says 450 knts I think)
Next,- How fast with auxiliary help (Jayto Rockets) can the thing go?
Ok long story..if you wish to participate-
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I am not too much for war stories but i think I smell a boat load of BS here .Read on.
I was sitting having a beer the other night-
I was next to and over hearing this conversation- this guy was talking to a young man about his air force tour (nam) AHEM
I never said a thing about me, just listened to how he a was a full bird Col, promoted in field etc.
IDK... dont rally care.
I would tune in and tune out..
I was army (helicopters) and do not know too much about the air force .
I did most my time Cantho Army air field.
The C130 Planes came and went. None were Air force, afaik. (But it was along long time ago)
They did use rockets at times to get going. Pretty dam impressive !
Now for my question in context. The part that I think is all BS!
The supposed Vet was telling these stories to this young man of about 28, and he was just soaking it up! The old pilot was sharing a few...with him...ahem
He now says was he pumped out tin foil particles to detour enemy rockets fired at the C 130 at times. ????
Well IDk, us slow pokey helicopter guys kept a couple Wily Petes close at hand for a supposed rocket derailment..there was the rumor there would be a BEEP BEEP over the radio if one was homing in.We were to pull the pin and chuck out one of those !....LOL
I never experienced it and know no one that lived to tell....
So next, this Vet tells if after after tossing tin foil somehow fails to side track rocket(s), .. he would hit his Jato rockets and attain 600 MPH and out run it.....or evade it , gain altitude so fast it could not keep up!
I say BS!
I do not see how that much time could pass with out being just lots of small parts all over the Delta.
To me 600 MPH is snails pace even if the big C130 could jump to that speed...i see no way that would detour a SAM or other rocket of that time..
Your thoughts?

[Seahawk]

Well, truth and fiction often merge after a few.

So.

Chaff and flares have been standard counter missile technology for a bit. They can even "tune" the chaff (essentially metal particles) for certain threats. Flares as well.

Chaff for missiles with radar seeking guidance, flares for heat seeking missiles. Both for some interesting threats.

Now, JATO stands for jet-assisted take off. The only way a C-130 (one of the great aircraft of all time IMHO) could reach 600kts indicated would be if the Airspeed Indicator was broken.

Redline is, depending on the model, 380kts or so. I do not know what max VNE is, but I imagine it is not at issue.

[KNS]

One of the guys I used to work with for a short while was a gent named Fred Ferguson (Medal of Honor recipient in Vietnam flying a Huey). Never talked about the war unless you asked him. He said he used avoid VFW meetings and the like because you never met a cook or truck driver, everybody was a hero. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration but coming from him I understood his meaning.

When some guys starts out his story as: "There I was, inverted, air medals dangling in my face..." you can usually walk the other way.

[afterburn 549]

Truth and beer..pretty sure he was repeating parts of what he had heard elsewhere...
How is / was tin foil ejected ?
From what i can barely remeber, if a rocket was fired, one might have 3 to 4 sec at the most to do something..
Not a lot of time for a couple of options..

[gshase]

200 MPH of BS.....JATO (acronym for jet-assisted take off)

[gshase]

Chaff and Flairs are in a 20 pack with both shell mixed together .....Like 2 inches X4 inches, Like a big shot gun shell.

[gordner]

chaff defeats a radar directed threat, for which they do have early warning. Chaff is a very effective anti-radar guided missile defense.
The tinfoil from the chopper, well worth a try I guess lol

[flyenby]

I am a real infantry combat vet..Nam 69-70. I despise the POS who lie about being there. They have no idea of the suffering,pain and fear .

[fintstone]

They fire much like the flare...from dispensers:


Chaff and flare dispensers.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

It always sorta bothered me that JATO ("jet-assisted take-off") was used to refer to rockets (not jets) assisting the takeoff / roll.

Heck, EVERY takeoff roll in a C130 is "jet assisted" when you think about it. If it ain't, you ain't goin no place! Following that logic, the jets are necessary, the rockets are doing the assisting.

Shouldn't it be "RATO"? Or if you really want to sound cool, just refer to them as "SRBs" (STS reference)

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

It always sorta bothered me that JATO ("jet-assisted take-off") was used to refer to rockets (not jets) assisting the takeoff / roll.

Heck, EVERY takeoff roll in a C130 is "jet assisted" when you think about it. If it ain't, you ain't goin no place! Following that logic, the jets are necessary, the rockets are doing the assisting.

Shouldn't it be "RATO"? Or if you really want to sound cool, just refer to them as "SRBs" (STS reference)

130s are turboprop. RATO is/was used interchangeably with JATO at one time.

[wdfifteen]

I don't know a lot about C-130s - obviously. When I worked as an engineer, over a period of a couple of years our lab was given some large carbon fiber panels to assess - rain erosion, BDA, etc. We were told they were experimental access panels for C-130s, and you don't ask questions. A few years later the F-117 flew in to be put in the Air Force Museum and I went down to take a look - whadda ya know, there was our panel. The "C-130 access panel" was really an F-117 landing gear door.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

I never said a thing about me, just listened to how he a was a full bird Col, promoted in field etc.

That's a red flag. My gramps was a USAF full bird Col. in Vietnam, and can tell you he had a desk job! haha Jap pow in the second war, really cool guy.
My uncle was a Major in Vietnam as well, he got stuck in B-52's, and later silo's. Once you're a full bird col. in the AF they really do not get sent out in harms way, or let you fly anymore for that fact.

[Don Ro]

Originally Posted by KNS

One of the guys I used to work with for a short while was a gent named Fred Ferguson (Medal of Honor recipient in Vietnam flying a Huey). Never talked about the war unless you asked him. He said he used avoid VFW meetings and the like because you never met a cook or truck driver, everybody was a hero. Perhaps a bit of an exaggeration but coming from him I understood his meaning.

When some guys starts out his story as: "There I was, inverted, air medals dangling in my face..." you can usually walk the other way.

Good one!

[afterburn 549]

First of all, thanx to everyone for all the information and for the video in action.
I had zero for clues how the rocket derailment worked.
This supposed vet had more stories and experiences then i had forgot !
The 600 knot story pretty much confirmed a BS story..But I did not know .Our old Hueys was comfortable at a thump thum along at p 80 LOL . We were farting around one day and put one to 120, it was poping pretty good even from inside. LOL
We certainly were not ever going to out run a feathered bird much less a rocket!
Next time i see this person, I am going to ask for his DD214 .I will explain "stolen Valor "and want him to clarify.
I am betting he gets MAD as hell and squirms a lot.
This pelican site of Wayne's has all the information a person would ever need. A lot of talented and experienced people here.
Thanx!

[Scuba Steve]

Outrun a rocket? Nope, not unless it was fired from a Nerf gun.

[911_Dude]

OP, your instincts were right. That guy is full of crap. Ive got several thousand C-130 hours. Air Force version. JATO was never used in flight, only take-off. It maybe was used in nam, but in my time JATO is only used by Fat Albert on the Blue Angels demo team and possibly the ski birds that operate in the arctic. Air Force C-130s had no defensive counter measures like chaff until around the late 90's, early 2000's. 600 kts would rip the wings right off, and like mentioned, JATO is only for take off assist. I cant remember what the red line is. Its never a factor on that plane. High 300's at low altitude. Did the guy also say he "once lost all four engines, started the "goat" and flew home sideways"? Thats a old, dumb, C-130 joke.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

True, still turbine-powered. I think "RATO" is more technically correct. I suppose a rocket does emit a jet of hot gasses to produce thrust so "JATO" is not completely inappropriate but since most people equate "jet" with "turbojet" or "turbofan" it's a bit misleading.

Damn cool aircraft. The DC-3 of our time.

[Nickshu]

[Nostril Cheese]