Home Electrical Question - Replacing Main Breaker

[look 171]

I take a Seimens over a Sq D. nothing wrong with neither. I am just a little bias. Nothing wrong with doing it yourself. Ya just have to stick to code and satisfy your building inspector. Its residential electrical panel, so it isn't that complex. Down here in lala land, we are required to have two grounding rod with a continuous ground through them and bond to water pipe.

[1990C4S]

Check your local requirements for arc fault breakers in the bedrooms, they may be mandatory.

And populate the panel with some spare breakers if the brand you choose isn't sold at the big box stores.

[MBAtarga]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

My setup is fairly simple. I currently have 200 amp service and I believe that this is adequate for my home.

Your replacement panel is limited to incoming service - not specifically any additional needs you may have. Unless your incoming service actually offers >200 amp - that's your limit.

has romex wiring through out the house with 50% 3-wire romex with ground.

So what is the other 50%? Code may require your ENTIRE home meet new code - meaning all outlets be 3 prong tamper proof, GFCI outlets to be added in kitchen, bath, garage, AFCI breakers for bedroom circuits, etc.

It's not just buy a new panel and replace the old....

[billybek]

Not sure, but I think he was implying that half the wire was two wire with a ground and the other half three wire with a ground.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

Your replacement panel is limited to incoming service - not specifically any additional needs you may have. Unless your incoming service actually offers >200 amp - that's your limit.

So what is the other 50%? Code may require your ENTIRE home meet new code - meaning all outlets be 3 prong tamper proof, GFCI outlets to be added in kitchen, bath, garage, AFCI breakers for bedroom circuits, etc.

It's not just buy a new panel and replace the old....

I can't speak other parts of the country as I have zero experience with working on homes outside of Socal. they usually leave you alone with other substandard wires when you pull a permit for a main panel changeout. AFCI in bedrooms are such BS if you ask me.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

Your replacement panel is limited to incoming service - not specifically any additional needs you may have. Unless your incoming service actually offers >200 amp - that's your limit.

So what is the other 50%? Code may require your ENTIRE home meet new code - meaning all outlets be 3 prong tamper proof, GFCI outlets to be added in kitchen, bath, garage, AFCI breakers for bedroom circuits, etc.

It's not just buy a new panel and replace the old....

I'm going to check with the utility company regarding my requirements. I find it very hard to believe that because I have one breaker that needs replacing (i.e., the main breaker), I would have to re-wire my whole house. This would explain why so many repairs are done without permits.

I was assuming I have 200 amp service because I have a 200 amp main breaker (two 100 amp bridged breaker). Is this a correct assumption or is there a definitive way to tell?

Originally Posted by billybek

Not sure, but I think he was implying that half the wire was two wire with a ground and the other half three wire with a ground.

What I meant is that my house has romex wiring as opposed to older knob & tubing. 50% of my rooms have a two prong outlet and the wiring behind it only has two wires (black & white). The other 50% of my house (kitchen and surrounding rooms) have 3 prong outlets and the wiring behind has 3 wires (white, black, and copper ground). The kitchen was remodeled in the mid 80's so that is when that section of the house was changed to 3 wire romex.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

I'm going to check with the utility company regarding my requirements. I find it very hard to believe that because I have one breaker that needs replacing (i.e., the main breaker), I would have to re-wire my whole house. This would explain why so many repairs are done without permits.

Just realized you are up in Fresno. They aren't going make you change all the wires. If you change one outlet or anything on that circuit, then they will make change out the knob and tube wires, that's about it. You shouldn't have to touch a thing. CAll your electric company and have a spotter come out and get paper work and location of the new panel done.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by look 171

I can't speak other parts of the country as I have zero experience with working on homes outside of Socal. they usually leave you alone with other substandard wires when you pull a permit for a main panel changeout. AFCI in bedrooms are such BS if you ask me.

We had to upgrade to a 200amp service and when the panel was replaced that is all they cared about. This is in WI.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by flipper35

We had to upgrade to a 200amp service and when the panel was replaced that is all they cared about. This is in WI.

Most inspectors do not care about other issues that's associated with the house unless its just about to fall off down the hill. Usually they inspect what's on the permit and don't care too much about anything anything else.

[E Sully]

Originally Posted by Tidybuoy

I was assuming I have 200 amp service because I have a 200 amp main breaker (two 100 amp bridged breaker). Is this a correct assumption or is there a definitive way to tell?

That is a 100 amp service. A 200 amp service has a 2-pole 200 amp breaker.
Meter pan would need to be upgraded along with the wire feed between pan and panel.
Ground rods would have to meet current requirements. Rest of house wiring is another issue.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by E Sully

That is a 100 amp service. A 200 amp service has a 2-pole 200 amp breaker.
Meter pan would need to be upgraded along with the wire feed between pan and panel.
Ground rods would have to meet current requirements. Rest of house wiring is another issue.

Thanks! So if I understand correctly, each 100 amp breaker (of my two that are bridged together) are operating 100 amps per bus bar. 100+100 is not 200 because it's just dividing the power into two 100 amp circuits.

This is good to find out because I'm about to buy a breaker box and I would have bought a 200 amp. Maybe that's why all those boxes are so big.

[look 171]

We haven't installed a 100 amp panel in a very long time. 200 is the standard and it is only a few bucks more. The last time I heard, 100 amp panels were no longer accepted by the city of LA but not sure about other parts of the state. I would check with the city or talk to that spotter.

[T77911S]

i had the power company come pull my meter base so i could fix my old meter base. i did not need a permit since i did not change it out.
might be the same for replacing a breaker. or jsut tell them you need to check the buss bars to make sure they are tight.
then either replace the panel or the breaker. might be a way to get around upgrading to code. the power company wont know you replaced anything inside the house.
my problem was a bad connection. tell them you want power removed so you can check everything.

i upgraded to a 400 amp meter base and 2 200 amp disconnects. code was i had to have a disconect outside so i had to add those, one for the house and one for the garage.
permit was no big deal. i was worried he was going to want to inspect my new garage but he did not. i played dumb when i went for the permit and asked him what i needed to do meet his/code specs. when he inspected it we talked about music for a while then he left. all he could look at was the work i had the permit for.

if you cut the tag off the meter base, it may be years before they know.

dont freak out over, its not a big deal no matter how you go about it.

[JavaBrewer]

Ok so I am going to bump this thread because there is a bunch of good info here for others to review!

I will pile on with a couple basic (hopefully) questions. I recently moved a travel trailer onto my property to serve as a granny flat (thread here). This is an older trailer, 2008, and the requirement is a 30 amp connection so we can run the AC and lights.

So I need to install a 30 amp outlet off of the main panel. I had an electrical guy out here who quoted me $1200 and change. Next. Another guy said he would have to order new breakers, re-stack existing, and other minor details. $950 and change.

My 'new' (a few years) panel is a Square D, all the breakers are made in MX I have a 30 amp breaker, combined with a 15 amp, to service the clothes dryer. We have a gas (well propane) dryer so this breaker is turned off. Nothing else is effected.

So I'm mostly a DIY guy like most here on PPOT. I'm thinking, dangerous, that I can repurpose this 30 amp breaker to service the RV. All I need to do is knock out an existing access in the service panel, run in new conduit, and connect it to the 30 amp breaker...

1. Throw 125 amp breaker on the panel to de-energize the panel
2. Knock out the access port, run in new conduit
3. Disconnect the existing wiring to the 30 amp breaker, apply wire nuts, tape, label appropriately, and bend out of the way
4. Wire new conduit to the breaker, add the white wire to the grounding bus
5. Add permit qualified (no I will not seek an official permit) PVC pipes and connectors to a 30 AMP panel box mounted below the main panel that the RV will plug into
6 Re-energize the 125 main breaker to the panel

So, given that I will do all this in the daytime and sober, what am I missing that will make my wife a widow?

Here is the panel configuration.


Intended breaker and panel knockout.

[JavaBrewer]

Better picture of the breaker in question

[MBAtarga]

Java- sounds like you've about got everything covered.
You mention "white wire to grounding bus" - that's actually the neutral bus. The bare copper mounts to the grounding bus. (technicality)
It looks like this panel is outside (mounted on stucco.) I assume you'll be using 10AWG stranded wire - and you mention PVC - this going to be routed underground/trenched to the trailer? You are adding a disconnect box (sub panel) at the trailer?

Edit - after you added 2nd picture. The trailer needs 30 A, 120 service - or 240?

[dad911]

Make sure your trailer is 220, not 110. When I google 30 amp RV or trailer, it seems many of them are 110. That 2 pole dryer breaker is for 220.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by MBAtarga

Java- sounds like you've about got everything covered.
You mention "white wire to grounding bus" - that's actually the neutral bus. The bare copper mounts to the grounding bus. (technicality)
It looks like this panel is outside (mounted on stucco.) I assume you'll be using 10AWG stranded wire - and you mention PVC - this going to be routed underground/trenched to the trailer? You are adding a disconnect box (sub panel) at the trailer?

Edit - after you added 2nd picture. The trailer needs 30 A, 120 service - or 240?

I bought a 30 Amp RV trailer box for the actual connection. Rather than trenching closer to the trailer I will just run RV 30 amp extension cord 50' in length. This is a temporary setup.

I'm no electrician, all I know the trailer needs a 30 amp breaker. Assuming...oops...110V service...like in a trailer park? It could be that the electric dryer breaker is 220v...actually likely. Is that a different breaker setup?

[dad911]

Looks like we hit post at the same time.......

if it's 30 amp 110, that is definitely NOT the breaker to use..

[look 171]

Dave, how did that trailer get its power before you owned it? Is there some kind of connection or plug on the outside for the power to be plugged into? I have never worked on a trailer, but that sounds like it must have a small panel to divide up the electricity coming in and redistribute it to various locations such as HVAC, plugs, and lights?