Considering a .223/5.56 AR Alternative - Thoughts?

[Jim Bremner]

We need to do a range day after it's rained in so cal so we can fire off surplus steel jacket ammo

I do like 9mm better for a pistol caliber rifle plus there's 9mm carbine ammo I guess that I'll need to pick up a 9mm carbine. 45 acp doesn't shoot as flat

[TCracingCA]

If you are going short barrel or carbine sized weapon then you pick the round appropriate for that (intermediate sized) and if long barrel/heavy barrels the same (move to the 308). If you are going after lightweight carry, then would you be using mega round magazines with large ammo? Maybe, but probably not!

[Jeff Higgins]

I can't believe no one has mentioned the venerable Mini 14. Now, you guys know I'm no "black rifle" guy, so maybe I'm biased, but I've just had a ball with mine since I picked it up last spring. That, and I can't believe how cheap it is to shoot this thing - using cheap bulk bullets, and only 25 grains of powder, primers are my biggest expense. I can still shoot darn near as cheap (or cheaper than) if I bought .22 rimfire from the scalpers at the gun shows.

There is a lot to be said for the pistol caliber carbines as well. My preference, of course, runs to the lever guns, but one would be hard pressed to find more cheap fun than a .38 Special / .357 mag carbine can provide. For the non-reloader, lead bullet .38 Special is about as cheap as it gets. Then, if you ever so desire, stoked with hot .357's, you have an entirely viable deer rifle that will actually nip at the heels of factory .30-30 loads. Brian Pearce lists some loads that get 150-158 grain bullets well up over 2,000 fps.These will dump any whitetail that ever lived, without suffering the obnoxious recoil of the bigger lever guns, like the .45-70 and such.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I can't believe no one has mentioned the venerable Mini 14. Now, you guys know I'm no "black rifle" guy, so maybe I'm biased, but I've just had a ball with mine since I picked it up last spring.

I just got in from shooting my Ruger Ranch. At 100 yards I'm good to go. I keep it on my Polaris.

I wish we had shot it when you were here, Matt, it is a viable weapon.

My favorite gun is the M1A Carbine. Find one in reasonable shape...I have a WWII edition that makes me smile every time.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I can't believe no one has mentioned the venerable Mini 14. Now, you guys know I'm no "black rifle" guy, so maybe I'm biased, but I've just had a ball with mine since I picked it up last spring. That, and I can't believe how cheap it is to shoot this thing - using cheap bulk bullets, and only 25 grains of powder, primers are my biggest expense. I can still shoot darn near as cheap (or cheaper than) if I bought .22 rimfire from the scalpers at the gun shows.

There is a lot to be said for the pistol caliber carbines as well. My preference, of course, runs to the lever guns, but one would be hard pressed to find more cheap fun than a .38 Special / .357 mag carbine can provide. For the non-reloader, lead bullet .38 Special is about as cheap as it gets. Then, if you ever so desire, stoked with hot .357's, you have an entirely viable deer rifle that will actually nip at the heels of factory .30-30 loads. Brian Pearce lists some loads that get 150-158 grain bullets well up over 2,000 fps.These will dump any whitetail that ever lived, without suffering the obnoxious recoil of the bigger lever guns, like the .45-70 and such.

I couldn't agree more. My suggestion to look at pcc's stemmed from how much fun I had with a lever action .357. But, we're going into the weeds here. He was asking about a modern sporting rifle (code for an AR). Personally, I believe that no handgun round benefits more from a carbine barrel, than the .357 magnum. I believe that a semi-auto carbine in .357 would be an incredible weapon inside of 200 yards. And frankly there are few (not none, and I know some of you are here) who can use a carbine at ranges that exceed 200 yards. Magazines are the big problem with the rimmed round. But this: FM-9 9mm Belt Fed AR-15/M-16 Upper Receiver :: Freedom Ordnance could be what makes a .357 AR a viable product rather than a one-off custom project. I'm waiting patiently with crossed fingers. But until then, those M92's are well worth suggesting.

[targa911S]

for a "sporting weapon" look at CZ. I have a .223 / 5.56 mannlicher style wood and metal rifle that is stunning to look at and puts holes in holes at 200 yards.

[J P Stein]

Ok, it's either a Mini 14 ( Ruger Ranch) in .223 or a lever action .357........I have the urge. A better option would be the Ruger Ranch in .357. That would get me over my stroke depression. Getting a driving privileges back would help also.....they doan tell ya about that up front..... Taint in the old fart handbook

The downside is our local range.......English Pit......it's a big hole in a ex gravel pit..no sun.....it's colder than a witches tit in that hole.

[Taz's Master]

One of each would be a hoot. For the price of a Miroku Winchester, you could get the Mini and a Rossi 92. A red dot on the .223 and a peep sight on the .357, could give you a warm feeling inside when it is cold outside.

[Paul K]

This.

Tavor - IWI US

Takes AR magazines, yet shorter & filled with badassery.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Paul K

This.

Tavor - IWI US

Takes AR magazines, yet shorter & filled with badassery.

I looked at that, but many reviews criticized a long, heavy, and vague trigger. Several reviews also preferred the PS90 which is also about $800 less.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by targa911S

for a "sporting weapon" look at CZ. I have a .223 / 55.6 mannlicher style wood and metal rifle that is stunning to look at and puts holes in holes at 200 yards.

Been looking at the switch barrel CZ's. Those darn Czechs make good guns...

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

?...

There is a lot to be said for the pistol caliber carbines as well. My preference, of course, runs to the lever guns, but one would be hard pressed to find more cheap fun than a .38 Special / .357 mag carbine can provide. For the non-reloader, lead bullet .38 Special is about as cheap as it gets. Then, if you ever so desire, stoked with hot .357's, you have an entirely viable deer rifle that will actually nip at the heels of factory .30-30 loads. Brian Pearce lists some loads that get 150-158 grain bullets well up over 2,000 fps.These will dump any whitetail that ever lived, without suffering the obnoxious recoil of the bigger lever guns, like the .45-70 and such.

Listening to Higgens can be hazardous to your wallet...I now have two more levers to go along with the .22 and .357/.38 revolvers I've had forever. A bit pricier to shoot would be a .44mag/special to go along with a M629 doncha know

[onewhippedpuppy]

I can probably blame Jeff for my .357 revolvers, and a Model 29 is on the short list.

[Seahawk]

Yep. My Ruger Vaquero owes it's purchase to Jeff.

A new definition of being "Higgins'ed"

[J P Stein]

I noticed my ammo stash drawer was nearly immobile......humm...moved the .22lr to another drawer. I didn't do an accurate count but it is about 1800 rnds, maybe 2000....either way, it's more than I can use.

Time to switch to 5.56mm and a spoon to use it, me thinks.....what a plan.
The local spoon store (within walking distance) has a Ruger Ranch. I was lookin' fer sumthin' to do tomorrow.

[Jeff Higgins]

My pleasure gentlemen, my pleasure.

[legion]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

I noticed my ammo stash drawer was nearly immobile......humm...moved the .22lr to another drawer. I didn't do an accurate count but it is about 1800 rnds, maybe 2000....either way, it's more than I can use.

That's an awfully thin supply.

Or were you saying that you had 2000 rounds of just .22LR?

[flyenby]

When I was in the infantry Nam 69, I had am M-16(.223). I watched it bounce off alot of jungle.. It didn't inspire confidence in a fire fight

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

I noticed my ammo stash drawer was nearly immobile......humm...moved the .22lr to another drawer. I didn't do an accurate count but it is about 1800 rnds, maybe 2000....either way, it's more than I can use.

Time to switch to 5.56mm and a spoon to use it, me thinks.....what a plan.
The local spoon store (within walking distance) has a Ruger Ranch. I was lookin' fer sumthin' to do tomorrow.

We have a black carbine (AR) and a tricked out Mini 14. My son prefers the AR and I will take the Mini all day long. Food for those is not cheap and along with .22lr the first to clear the shelves when someone gets a wild hair. A 9MM AR setup sounds awesome, would prefer a .40 as that ammo seems to always be available.

JP - you don't have near enough .22lr. It comes in 550 round boxes man!

[Paul K]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I looked at that, but many reviews criticized a long, heavy, and vague trigger. Several reviews also preferred the PS90 which is also about $800 less.

Sounds like an aftermarket drop-in trigger would be a great business opportunity!

I hear the Tavor also damages the brass as it's ejected- making relaoding difficult at best.

Pity, the gun seems like a great idea!