Ideas for DIY patio - inputs please!

[dave 911]

Okay gang, here's the current set up of our back yard. We took a deck out earlier this year, and want to replace it with a patio - pavers, stained concrete, etc. The deck was pretty lame, and had caused some rot issues on the lower fascia that's now been fixed.

I want to do it myself, and ideally would like to keep the existing concrete slab (which was under the deck) and add on to it, if it could be made to look good. I can't put anything on top of the concrete as the clearance between it and the lower fascia is only 3/4" or so. If I had to I'd take it out. We're thinking of extending the patio maybe 6' beyond the existing slab, and then also extend out to the left under the 3 windows, and would like it to have some curves to it, and not just a big rectangle.

We're in SW Ohio, so we have our wonderful weather to keep in mind w/ whatever products I go with.

So, give me some ideas! Thanks

[MBAtarga]

I'd rip out the existing pad - perhaps you can use it as fill - and pour a new pad of your preferred shape and size. Pavers in your area (freezing/snow,etc) will likely bring their own problems - hence recommendation for a pad.

[stomachmonkey]

New free form stamped or stained pad.

If you go stamped you can most likely keep the current slab and pour around it but the other question is what's the minimum pour your local supplier will deliver.

Around here it's 200 sq.ft. Anything less and they won't bother or you pay a 200 sq ft and eat what you don't use.

[look 171]

Bust it out and pour a new slab. I don't particular like to pour right next to an old slab. you will be much happier with the result. It isn't too much more money. MBAtrage hit the nail right on the head on this

[Hugh R]

Bust out the old, you'll be much happier. The cost to form around the old, and the uneven nature of it will annoy you very quickly.

[TimT]

Looking at your pics... to do anything you really need to remove the old slab... and a bunch of fill that the contractor who built your place used to bring the grade up so he could add a small slab patio....and meet the entry

I did some crude photoshop edits...

first pic you can see the difference between grade and sill at the corner of your house... and how when you approach the door, fill was added to bring grade nearer to sill.. looking at the pic again, I bet is should read 12" instead of 16"




this pic kind of shows the area where you will have to remove fill to..get rid of or redistribute the material, and you have a blank slate to build a new deck on

[Charles Freeborn]

Really good stamping pads out there now, as long as the person doing it knows what they're doing. We had our driveway tinted dark grey and stamped with a slate pattern. Looks good. I agree with taking out the existing. It'll always look cobbled together if you don't. Address all the rot issues while it's out.
-C

[Baz]

IMHO you don't have to remove your old pad. Especially if you're going to resurface everything when done so it will all look uniform.

I could work up a nice design but would need a to scale sketch of that area to use as a template.

You can find heaps of ideas online or from magazines.

I have a bunch of the Sunset books that have a ton of photos and drawings that I find useful for design concepts. They have a website too with pics and info...

A project like this is worth an investment in planning up front which takes time. You'll know when it's right and my advice is not to start anything until you are content with the planning phase.

Plan your work and then work your plan.

Good luck!

[billybek]

I have a big stretch of pavers behind the house that have been down for almost 16 years now. Lots and lots of labor to get it down properly small lifts of crush gravel well compacted. It does move in the winter and crowns a bit but always returns to grade after the thaw in the spring. Virtually no maintenance in all those years.
I love pavers as you can always lift them and put them back in place. I have bought used pavers to finish some other little projects around the house. Use a commercial tile saw with a concrete blade to cut them purchased off of Kijiji for less than a rental and will re sell sometime soon for what I purchased it for.

[MBAtarga]

My concern with pouring on top of the existing pad is that the original pad location will telegraph through any new pour and cracks will quickly occur. Of course, use of pavers requires the pad be removed with the existing grade.

[dad911]

If you are going to use pavers, you can go on top of existing slab(so they won't move/settle) Put a drain against the house, with rubberized water shield to protect/flash against the house. Can buy it in 4" rolls, peels and sticks.

Drain like this:

I like to have a concrete slab under pavers, mine is about 15 years old and hasn't moved.

[1990C4S]

I would pull the slab and start from scratch. Go to Pinterest or a similar site and look for designs you like.

[Jay Auskin]

There's no reason you can't leave it and add on. I have a concrete slab, that then becomes part of my driveway. There was a portion overhanging to the right of my stairs, so I cut that to make it flush. Then, added flagstone to the end of my house. Also put a little bump-out for a fire pit (fire pit not shown). The photo here was right after installation. Also not shown, was a pad I put in off to the right for the grill. It's made up of antique street pavers I had laying around. Flagstone is easy because it is random shapes. Like any paver/stone, the key is a deep base of crushed gravel, slag sand, and getting everything tamped down. This is in SE Michigan, and holding up very well. Plus, easily repaired if an area sags, etc.

This is a house I bought really cheap, so cost was a concern. It's only going to be worth so much money, and didn't want to spend more than $3K or so on materials, equipment rental, disposal, etc.

[dave 911]

Thanks for all the inputs - sounds like i'll be busting it out. Jay - I like your patio addition, and could probably do that with ours, but the slab is bigger than yours - yours is more of a landing.

And Tim, you are right, I've got some work to do to level things out.

I'm probably going to go w/ some type of pavers, that's what the wife wants after seeing it in some of our friend's different backyards. They seem to do fine in the weather here, you see them all over the place in different settings, commercial and private homes.

[cabmandone]

If I were to try and keep the existing pad I'd build up a stone wall with a cap around the existing patio then excavate the dirt around it and make a one or two step down to a new level. I'd find some concrete stain and color the old as best I could to match the color of the new and use the old slab area as my Prep area when guest come over and make the lower area the place where the table, chairs and other patio furniture are placed.

In your pic it looks like you have about a 12 to 16 inch drop in grade from the existing patio to the corner where the A/C unit is so a step down second layer wouldn't be that difficult to do but your divider wall would need to be placed at the new lower level. I'd excavate out about 4 to 6 inches of dirt below the second level the compact stone or quarry sand (packs like concrete) and set the wall on the stone. Use paver locking adhesive to form up the wall then compact quarry sand for the lower level and put about 1 or 2 inches of sand down as leveler. When you put the pavers down, take a rubber mallet and tap the pavers into the sand.

[stevej37]

Originally Posted by dave 911

I'm probably going to go w/ some type of pavers, that's what the wife wants after seeing it in some of our friend's different backyards. They seem to do fine in the weather here, you see them all over the place in different settings, commercial and private homes.

Pavers will be fine...if the prep work is done right.
Mine have held up great and i'm north of you.

[billybek]

Bust up the old patio/pad and use it for pit run.

[wdfifteen]

I live in SW Ohio too. Are you setting the pavers on a concrete slab? If so they might be OK. Pavers on crushed stone are a freeze/thaw maintenance hassle that I wouldn't deal with again, plus doing them right is a lot more work than concrete. You need to be very careful about the base, making sure it has good drainage, the right fall, compacting it, etc. Best patio I've ever had - and I've had a wooden deck, pavers on crushed stone, natural limestone on crushed stone, plain concrete, and a stamped concrete pad, is the stamped pad. Looks great, no maintenance, stays level, furniture sits on it without rocking.
Having been through this, I would tear out the old slab and have a good contractor put in a stamped concrete pad, add interest by having a shaped edge (no straight lines, scalloped or something), and start enjoying it. Don't get any closer to the lower fascia than 3/4 of an inch and keep an eye out for termite tunnels.

[Tidybuoy]

My project was a little different than your needs but here are a couple of photos of a patio I built with a wood frame and pavers - and a couple of photos of matching stepping stones. The pavers are sitting on bedding sand.

[billybek]

That looks very nice, Vern.
In climates that experience freeze thaw cycles I wouldn't use the sleepers as dividers. They eventually get pushed out of the ground. The base preparation is also really important to get right.
Pit run, then crushed gravel or recycled concrete (This stuff is great! High lime content keeps most stuff from growing in it.) then your bedding sand.
When it is done right you get years of service with little maintenance.
My raised patio is 14x55 and I have done very to it since it was installed in 2000. All of my sidewalks are pavers as well.