Advice for a kid pursuing aerospace engineering.

[HardDrive]

We have friends who currently live in China. They're Indian nationals. Their son wants to pursue aerospace engineering. He is initially pursuing a degree in mechanical engineering, and has been accepted to a number of school here in the USA. I don't have a complete list, but Texas A&M, University of Illinois Urbana and SUNY are some of them. He has also been accepted to Hong Kong University of Science and Technology.

The HK university if far cheaper than sending him to school in the USA. But his parents are concerned that the he will be shut out of opportunities in the US/Europe if he does not attend a western school.

Can anyone shed light on this? Will the boy be able to get internships in the USA if he attends a foreign school? Is there another path they should be looking at?

Ultimately the kid wants to be settle in the US.

[wdfifteen]

My advice would be get in two years in Hong Kong and finish at a US school. Consider Wright State University in Ohio. The campus is just outside the gates of the major research labs at Wright Patterson AFB and AFIT is next door (AFIT = Air Force Instituted of Technology). Many of the higher level classes are taught by working aerospace engineers and there are lots of opportunities to rub elbows with influential scientists and engineers.
I went to Wright State, got summer jobs on base and got to know the people in the labs. I had a job waiting when I got my papers.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

A Chinese degree is nearly worthless. There are lots of cases (and I've run into them personally) where people simply pay money and buy their degrees / credentials there.

Getting a more general (mechanical engineering) degree as an undergraduate program and specializing in aerospace at the graduate level makes a lot of sense .

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

A Chinese degree is nearly worthless. There are lots of cases (and I've run into them personally) where people simply pay money and buy their degrees / credentials there.

I knew a very, very intelligent engineer from China that came to the US and had to start over from the bottom because his degree wasn't recognized here. I have no doubt based on my experience with him that he was very capable.

The kid should come here for school.

[Seahawk]

I can offer a perspective.

Should the young man desire to work in aerospace in the U.S., he needs a degree here, especially if he wants to work for the bigs or the government.

There are simply far too many really bright kids with degrees from here to warrant an overseas look. Again, if he wants to work here.

Also, he needs to start thinking about getting a security clearance. He will limit his options if he cannot qualify for one.

I work very closely with two major universities aerospace programs. Let me know if I can provide any insight beyond this board.

[winders]

Hong Kong is not viewed the same as China. Also, Hong Kong University of Science and Technology is highly rated internationally. It is rated higher than Texas A&M and University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign.

QS World University Rankings® 2015/16 | Top Universities

Having said that, an undergraduate degree from M.I.T. or Cal Tech would go much farther!!

[onewhippedpuppy]

AE degree here, 10 years in aerospace. Most of my career has been in management, and I've been involved in hiring a lot of engineers. Even if he goes to a top notch school in HK, many will round file his resume because they either aren't familiar or suspect that it's not above the board. As everyone has said, if he wants to work in the USA he will need to go to school here.

AE is a fantastic degree, but can be more narrow than ME. With that said, an AE will make more money than a comparable AE at a relevant company. AE at most universities will be more hours and typically seen as more challenging than ME. Feel free to PM me if you have any more specific questions.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Getting a more general (mechanical engineering) degree as an undergraduate program and specializing in aerospace at the graduate level makes a lot of sense .

+1

Best bang for the buck, or north of $150K.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

+1

Best bang for the buck, or north of $150K.

I'd be really curious what you guys are basing this on. An AE degree costs only the tuition associated with the extra hours over an ME degree, in my case it was 15 hours. In all of my experience, AE is worth more money in the workplace at an aerospace company. If you do intend to pursue a masters in AE, an ME would be required to take some undergrad level AE courses as pre-requisites, as ME courses do not include aerodynamics, flight control law, flight dynamics, or orbital mechanics.

I would not, however, recommend AE to anyone not specifically interested in an aerospace career. ME is much more general and therefore would open up a wider variety, and greater total number, of career options.

[aigel]

Is he going to go to grad school?

Yes:
- He can get undergrad out of the way in HK, do well and then apply to grad school in the US.

No:
- He should come to the US straight away

One thing you must take into account is that going to school in the US is a pathway to greencard and citizenship. Much harder to come here after college and find a job.

Greencard and citizenship are very important if you want to work in aerospace as a lot of the jobs require a clearance or have at least export controlled information which will not be accessible if you aren't at least a GC holder.

If it was my kid, I'd send him straight to the US - who knows if it will be easy to get in after undergrad. Things change - political landscape - admission numbers etc.

Good Luck!

G

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I actually started as an AE many years ago but switched out into an ME program after figuring out that an undergraduate AE degree was probably a bit too specialized and my success or failure was going to be closely tied to military defense contracts / political election cycles. I also didn't like the thought of being "part of the problem" of the military-industrial complex (political / economic philosophy - had to be true to my beliefs). An ME degree (and particularly if one goes on to obtain EIT / PE) will open a lot more doors. I strongly advocate getting a general / broad undergraduate degree, then working for a couple of years (like I did) before figuring out whether or not one wants or needs (or whether it's even worth it) to specialize via a graduate program. I've "fallen back" on my undergraduate credentials a couple of times when my graduate / specialized field (architecture - and yes I consider architecture more specialized than an"general" program nowadays but that's another discussion...) fell on hard times.

Specialization is a double-edged sword - when the field in question is in demand you can easily make a helluva lot more than as a generalist but it's also a LOT easier to find yourself on the unemployment line if / when demand for your particular specialization wanes. When that happens, ANYTHING is better than a "$0" take home number even if you end up not working in the area you personally find most desirable or interesting. During the last crash there were a LOT of people with specialized degrees and experience who found themselves asking "do you want fries with that?" or even not being able to find anything at all. Many lost savings, retirement accounts, cars, houses, etc. because companies panicked and slammed the door shut on R&D or pretty much anything that didn't have an absolutely guaranteed positive RoR, then slashed headcount by the thousands indiscriminately. So part of the thought process should include one's economic outlook and what level of protection from layoffs you might want or require. Are you able to absorb a year or two out of work? Can you budget well? Do you have a reliable "fall back" already or not? As a point to consider, quite a few people post-2008 still are not back in their chosen areas of specialty, having moved on by necessity to new jobs or careers. Most are earning well below what they originally were (chronically under-employed or "degree-rich / job poor").

The "holy grail" of course is to find a specialized course of study that has high demand and is likely to remain highly in demand for a long time. This used to include things like biochemistry, petrochemical engineering, computer engineering, robotics, etc. but these days they're all volatile. If I was going to go back to school today I'd probably go for something like (general) chemical engineering or perhaps materials science (nanotechnology). I see that as a growth area that's likely to have some staying power as well as opportunity for real innovation.

Would you rather work a job that nets you a consistent / reliable $70k a year (generalist) or a job that has a 75% chance of getting you >$100k a year but a 25% chance of giving you a goose egg (specialist)? The math is something along those lines (you need to research it for your particular field). Alternatively you can be a risk-taker and want to start your own company / practice with a chance for unlimited potential earnings but a much higher probability of failure / zero income. I am grappling with this dilemma now and have been since about 2007. FWIW I get occasional side gigs that excite me and make me want to go "all in" on doing my own thing but given the regulatory environment, tax structure and generally anti-entrepreneurial / pro-corporate climate out there make it very hard to convince myself to jump ship, give up a steady paycheck and good benefits - particularly if one has dependents and financial obligations. Yes that means I'm "whoring myself out" and am "part of the problem" but it's hard to see it as being a sensible risk right now. Being a slave sucks but I digress...

All these points of view are things to consider. There is definitely NOT a "one-size-fits-all" solution here and my best advice would be for the college-bound young man or woman to take some time, do some serious introspection about who they are, what they really want, what level of risk they're really comfortable taking, what resources they realistically have and what they REALLY want out of life (not just "make money" - there's a lot more to it than that!). Know thyself.

Good luck!

[aschen]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Getting a more general (mechanical engineering) degree as an undergraduate program and specializing in aerospace at the graduate level makes a lot of sense .

Im siding with P-O-P on this, unless he knows absolutely without question aerospace is the only industry for him.


I disagree that ME is any less of a difficult curriculum, or at least that wasnt the case at purdue in the mid 90s. I guess it can be "optioned" easier because there were alot more choices for tech electives.

[Jose_JGC]

Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University = the Harvard of the skies. Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University

[wayner]

My son is about to graduate as an ME. He is currently wiring at a company designing test facilities for jet engines, if that helps the discussion.

[flipper35]

My nephew just graduated with a 4 year degree and had offers to consider before he graduated but there isn't a high demand right now and he was told early on that if his grades aren't near perfect he would have a hard time finding a good job. I think they quoted him 40-60 percent placement for new grads right now. He is one of the few on a team of 100 that has unlimited access to the lab, partially because of his grades and partially because of his work ethic as an intern there. His starting salary is pretty decent.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by aschen

Im siding with P-O-P on this, unless he knows absolutely without question aerospace is the only industry for him.


I disagree that ME is any less of a difficult curriculum, or at least that wasnt the case at purdue in the mid 90s. I guess it can be "optioned" easier because there were alot more choices for tech electives.

I agree, aerospace is very niche. I went into AE because I knew I wanted to work in the local aerospace industry. I love aviation, so there weren't really any other options in my mind.

I think ME has more flexibility, so I'm sure you can make it as hard or harder than the standard AE curriculum depending on electives. I'm sure it also varies by school. In my case the AE program required more hours, which definitely made it more demanding if not "harder".

[astrochex]

I got a degree in AE because of my dad. Odd thing is, I have not worked on an aero-type job in my 29yr career (single employer) in the aerospace industry. An ME degree would likely have gotten me in the same door.

The aerospace industry is very fickle in the US, it may be a better option in Europe. Depending on his grades (and activities, associations, etc), he may be able write his ticket into a job he wants to do. He needs to figure out what he wants to do and then align his education to that/those interests.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

He may want to consider Imperial College in London for an aeronautical degree as it will give him more opportunities around the world after finishing than a US engineering degree would.

Other than providing a sound stepping stone into an aerospace job it should also give him a good shot at getting into one of the top F1 or LMP1 motor racing teams.

Again as mentioned, he needs to work out what he want his engineering interests are and work out a way of getting there. If he is unsure then I think he should go foe a ME degree and then maybe go onto a more specialised masters degree once he has worked out what area of engineering interests him more.

[HardDrive]

Thank you all for the fantastic feedback thus far. If he is absolutely going to pursue a masters degree after his undergrad, would that change the equation in terms of going to a foreign school?

[winders]

Yes, the undergrad school matters.....