An abstinence program for middle school students...

[Cajundaddy]

My approach as a father was probably closer to Rika's. I raised 3 daughters and in a nut shell:
"Boyfriends come and go but STDs, Naked pics, and babies are forever. Every action has consequences and some are life changing. choose wisely."

"Boys are like freight trains. Once you get them going it's really difficult to slow them down."

I do remember being a boy at 12-13 and I couldn't wait to squeeze a titty.

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by Neilk

I can't believe my tax dollars are going to this (I live in Texas). It is thinly veiled bible beating IMO.

I am all for proper sex education, but to say it is to "stand for purity" is ridiculous. Teach kids the cold hard facts about careless sex (STDs, pregnancy), the ramifications of sexting, date rape, etc, but to say someone is impure because they have sex is stupid.

I guess that all depends on your definition of purity. The word could mean "religious purity" or simply freedom from contamination (STDs). It all depends on which hot buttons the word pushes for you.
https://www.google.com/search?q=purity+definition&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

[pavulon]

So, I ask the PP brain trust:
1) these stats accurate?

Statistics come from a population to which teachers teach. The stats are there for people who try to make sense of what has happened. The simplest message might be to avoid becoming a contributor to the stats.

2) should a school be promoting such a program? Granted maybe they want to provide parents with info in order to make better parenting choices but they don't think parents know this stuff?

It's a tough spot but advocating for anything but abstinence may leave liability

3) should there be a counter-program that is the antithesis of such a program to provide balance? (I bet it would sell out!)

What is the antithesis of the program? No program? Obviously "Free love" isn't an rational option

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by pavulon

It's a tough spot but advocating for anything but abstinence may leave liability

Abstinence-only is a proven failure. Practicing a known failed program to the exclusion of anything else leaves the practitioners open to liability.

[AFC-911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

When I was in 8th grade, one of my 7th grade neighbors got pregnant. The father was another 7th grader. Middle school is NOT too early for sex ed, because middle school is not too early for sex.

Wow! I must've been really sheltered in the late 90s. I only knew one girl in HS that got pregnant as a Junior.

That or I just didn't pay enough attention in Middle School.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

When I was in 8th grade, one of my 7th grade neighbors got pregnant. The father was another 7th grader. Middle school is NOT too early for sex ed, because middle school is not too early for sex.

I guess it would depend on what one means by "sex ed". Obviously, a 7th grader should recognize that babies are a result of sex and you don't want one at 11 years old. How to have sex without getting pregnant (including oral and anal sex, sex toys, different types of contraception and how to use them) seems way beyond what an 11 year old should be taught in school. I did not teach my kids to drive until I expected that they were old enough to do so (but they knew about cars). Teaching children to do anything comes with the expectation that they are preparing to do it...soon.

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I guess it would depend on what one means by "sex ed". Obviously, a 7th grader should recognize that babies are a result of sex and you don't want one at 11 years old. How to have sex without getting pregnant (including oral and anal sex, sex toys, different types of contraception and how to use them) seems way beyond what an 11 year old should be taught in school. I did not teach my kids to drive until I expected that they were old enough to do so (but they knew about cars). Teaching children to do anything comes with the expectation that they are preparing to do it...soon.

Well sex ed classes have to be taught at an age appropriate level. Eleven years would certainly not get the same curriculum as a junior in high school. The key points for 11 year olds would be waiting until they are more mature, and if not, educating them on STDs, pregnancy and how to avoid each. I don't think anyone is advocating teaching them about toys at that age.

[Neilk]

Speaking of stats, I find this one hard to believe and really deceptive

o 1 in 10 girls get pregnant? (T or F)
 False – roughly 1 in 4 sexually active teen girls

The questions starts with a question relating to all girls getting pregnant, and then in the answer they narrow down the group to sexually active teen girls to get 1 in 4 to get a more alarming number, which I would like a source for. That number is there to freak out parents into sending their kids to the course so they can bump their enrollment numbers.

The above question reminds of that phrase "Lies, damn Lies, and statistics".

1 in 10 guys get speeding tickets? (T or F)
False, 1 in 4 guys driving sports cars get tickets

About the same as their question

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Abstinence-only is a proven failure. Practicing a known failed program to the exclusion of anything else leaves the practitioners open to liability.

Obviously, practicing abstinence doesn't fail. Promoting it often fails. However, there really are middle and high schoolers who take the advice and choose to be abstinent. Obviously there are plenty who are sexually active. The advice can be lost on young people if not explicit and in terms they can understand.

This is not to say that I believe abstinence is the only thing that should be taught. That's not rational. But the distinction should be made that teaching isn't promoting just as clean needle exchanges do not promote IV drug abuse--it only acknowledges that there is an issue and addresses it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I guess it would depend on what one means by "sex ed". Obviously, a 7th grader should recognize that babies are a result of sex and you don't want one at 11 years old. How to have sex without getting pregnant (including oral and anal sex, sex toys, different types of contraception and how to use them) seems way beyond what an 11 year old should be taught in school. I did not teach my kids to drive until I expected that they were old enough to do so (but they knew about cars). Teaching children to do anything comes with the expectation that they are preparing to do it...soon.

Obviously. I am just suggesting that parents need to be real about their own kids. How often do you hear, "I never thought my child was capable of this" or something similar from a parent? I will preach abstinence, while knowing damn good and well that they probably won't listen to me. So if they choose to exercise their free will, I want them prepared.

I know my kids will do stupid stuff as teenagers. My hope and prayer is that they can escape without anything that will impact them for the remainder of their lives.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Obviously, practicing abstinence doesn't fail.

Maybe I was a little unclear. I mean practicing abstinence-only education. Practicing abstinence obviously works. It's educating everyone to do it that is futile.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Neilk

Well sex ed classes have to be taught at an age appropriate level. Eleven years would certainly not get the same curriculum as a junior in high school. The key points for 11 year olds would be waiting until they are more mature, and if not, educating them on STDs, pregnancy and how to avoid each. I don't think anyone is advocating teaching them about toys at that age.

If you have kids in middle school, there is a good chance that is what they are taught.

[aigel]

Get real guys - abstinence until marriage? Would you really want your kids to follow that? Would you have preferred to follow that yourself when you were younger?

[pavulon]

I think strongly encouraging delay of any activity until a genuine capacity to address unintended consequences develops is entirely reasonable and responsible. My parents thought they did that but were ineffective. I'm planning (and hoping) to do better but understand that I can only try.

Originally Posted by aigel

Get real guys - abstinence until marriage? Would you really want your kids to follow that? Would you have preferred to follow that yourself when you were younger?

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by pavulon

I think strongly encouraging delay of any activity until a genuine capacity to address unintended consequences develops is entirely reasonable and responsible. My parents thought they did that but were ineffective. I'm planning (and hoping) to do better but understand that I can only try.

^^ This!

As parents if we can encourage kids to get through HS without facing the heavy consequences of becoming teenage parents they have a fighting chance. There are no guarantees but if kids understand, and value this chapter in their lives they often make wise choices and are more careful about who what where when and why. Once they are 18 we hope that the lessons stick and they continue to exercise caution.

[jcommin]

I'm all for abstinence. I know the schools have sex-ed programs and I'm sure there are as many opinions as there are families. I did not choose to let the school teach sex ed with input from me.

I had "the talk" when my oldest was about 16 yr old. He hit puberty later but I did talk to him about sex. Although my preference was abstinence, it was his choice to make good decisions. If he chose to engage in sex, my wish was for him to do it safely with condoms. If he was to embarrassed to buy then he and I would buy them together. I didn't want to be a grandfather, of have him becoming a father or meet an angry father of a girl, etc. I had another talk with him when he turned 18 and became an adult. I warned him about having sex with girls that were under aged.

I had the same conversation with my younger son when he was in 7th grade - because he was sexually active.

I don't regret the conversations. What I do know from both experiences, abstinence is no method of birth control. It's a good starting point but parents need to take the lead.

[Moses]

The most ridiculous stab at sex education I've seen in a while... Pure fail. A triumph of hope over reason.

Girls delay intercourse when they own their sexuality. There is only ONE reason for a girl to have sex. Because SHE wants to. Not because it's the third date. Not because your friends are having sex. Not because he'll leave you if you don't. Not because you're drunk and NOT because he swiped right. Get the idea? Empowered girls make smart choices.

And drop EVERY reference to marriage. Your entire message will be dismissed immediately. The message is WAY to important to screw up with that wishful thinking. And yes, sex education is a big part of what I do for a living.

[M.D. Holloway]

Seems like teen births are decreasing:

Why is the teen birth rate falling? | Pew Research Center

Measuring Teen Pregnancy in Virginia - Virginia Performs

Attention GOP: Comprehensive Sex Ed Credited for California


Or maybe they are not having as much sex?

Sexual and Reproductive Health of Persons Aged 10--24 Years --- United States, 2002--2007

Sexually Active Teens | Child Trends

Another Look at Abstinence and Declines in Teen Sexual Activity » BarbWire.com

[fintstone]

Buy them Iphones before they become interested in the other sex and you may never have to worry about it. Hard to have sex while texting.