Pumpkin Throwing...

[Jeff Higgins]

Look what the little brown Santa truck driver just threw up onto my front porch:





And yes, this is a rifle, not a shotgun (notice the sights on the barrel rib). It's a 12 bore muzzle loading rifle, designed to shoot round ball only - over a rather hefty charge of black powder. It's kinda heavy at about 12 pounds, but it balances nicely, and I bet I come to appreciate its weight after shooting it a bit.

I'm still waiting for the bullet mold to arrive. It shoots a .715" diameter round ball of about 500 grains weight. Soon as the mold arrives, I'll be casting up a few and heading to the range.

The challenge will be getting both barrels to print reasonably close to one another at, say, 50 yards or so. Unfortunately, this thing is not "regulated" in the same manner as the high end breech loading doubles are, wherein the gunmaker continually shoots it, records points of impact, separates the barrels and shims between them, re-solders the upper and lower ribs, and tries again. This is a painstaking, time consuming, and therefor very expensive process. The manufacturer of this particular rifle forgoes that to hit a price point. There are, however, a few tricks that can be employed on a muzzle loader to accomplish this same task, assuming we aren't starting too far off.

Anyway, should be lots of good, clean fun...

[jorian]

.715" would leave a hell of an exit wound.

[KFC911]

Makes my shoulder hurt just lookin' at it

[MikeSid]

Shouldn't that be mounted on the side of a pirate ship?

[aigel]

Originally Posted by jorian

.715" would leave a hell of an exit wound.

Or none!

[aigel]

So, on sighting this in, you'd just need to have the "first" barrel shoot good at 50 yards. Your second shot (this is for dangeous game running at you!), you can just shoot with both eyes open - right between the eyes of the elephant/grizz/monster hog - blam!

G

[John Rogers]

Are you going to use a patch with the round ball? We have a couple of shooters at our matches that shoot .75 and .69 round ball muskets and the instructions from the original owners said to use linnen and spit.

[Jeff Higgins]

Most second shots at "dangerous" game are going away shots, as they are doing their best to both get away from and figure out what just happened to them. It's the third and fourth shots, after they have had time to think about it and develop a severe dislike for you, that are coming at you.

Irish linen is one of the traditional patch materials. It's quite a bit tougher than pillow ticking, so it's used for heavier loads. It doesn't burn through as easy. I'll start with pillow ticking (because it's what I have) and see how the patches hold up.

[flipper35]

Those poor, poor rats.

[vash]

i would love to try to shoot that!!

[scottmandue]

If you don't mind me asking... who makes that beast?

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Beautiful double! Please keep us updated.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Unfortunately, this thing is not "regulated" in the same manner as the high end breech loading doubles are, wherein the gunmaker continually shoots it, records points of impact, separates the barrels and shims between them, re-solders the upper and lower ribs, and tries again. This is a painstaking, time consuming, and therefor very expensive process.

It's also really punishing on the gunmaker. My understanding is that one can't regulate a big bore double rifle by shooting it off a rest. The maker has to shoulder it, as the way the gun recoils has an effect on the point of impact.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

If you don't mind me asking... who makes that beast?

Pedersoli in Italy. They have really upped their game in the last decade or so. Guys are actually winning BPCR matches with Pedersoli Sharps and Highwall replicas these days.

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

Beautiful double! Please keep us updated.

It's also really punishing on the gunmaker. My understanding is that one can't regulate a big bore double rifle by shooting it off a rest. The maker has to shoulder it, as the way the gun recoils has an effect on the point of impact.

I'll definitely have a range report in the near future.

And yes, regulating the big boys is definitely a brutal affair. Standing up actually helps in this regard, as does being a skinny little guy, believe it or not. They give much more readily with the recoil. Us bigger goons kinda soak it all up and get the "full monty".

These things are certainly very critical when it comes to hold and load. They will absolutely shoot differently from a rest, and some will shoot differently with the right barrel if there is no cartridge in the left. Once regulated, they are stuck with one load for life, which kind of killed them of when Kynoch, the British ammo manufacturer, went out of business in the late '50's to early '60's. They were the only ones loading ammo. I hear they are back now, though.

In the meantime, Woodleigh was making bullets and Huntington Die Specialties (along with a few others, like Bertram) were making brass. Ross Seyfreid figured out that Reloder 15 mimicked Cordite, and the old doubles would regulate when loaded properly with it, and it was off to the races. Several guys at my gun club who had some of these old doubles bought dies, brass, bullets, powder, and primers and "commissioned" me to load up some ammo for them (the ones who were not reloaders themselves). What fun...

As a result, I've had the pleasure of shooting several breach loading doubles over the years. None of them mine, of course - they were well above my tax bracket, even 20-30 years ago. I've fired a .470 Nitro Express from a couple of makers, a .450/400 N.E., and a couple of .577 N.E.'s. They actually kick less than my Ruger #1 or my long gone Model 70 in .458 Winchester Magnum. The doubles are scaled to the chambering, with the .470's typically going 11-12 pounds, and the .577's going from 14 or 15 and up. That helps a lot, along with proper stock shape and fitment.

Alas, British doubles went the way of early 911's. Where in the '80's I know several of these guys picked them up for a few thousand dollars (or less), the values subsequently skyrocketed. Everyone I knew who had one sold it for tens of thousands in the '90's. We just don't see them at the range anymore, which is a real shame. My new front stuffer will have to do its best to pick up that torch...

[Jeff Higgins]

The mold arrived today, so I managed to get some round balls cast. .715" diameter, about 500 grains. Shown below with a .457, .495, and .535 round ball, and two .54 caliber conicals for comparison:



Here is one with a .308 diameter 180 grain spitzer:

[fanaudical]

Nice piece of craftsmanship! As one of those "skinny guys", I'm not sure I would be still standing after pulling the trigger on the first barrel (probably get knocked right on my butt).

[porsche4life]

Got any ballistic gel around? I'd like to see the exit wound from that thing!

[RF5BPilot]

I get it that there's more to the process, but too bad the alignment process can't be shortened using laser pointers down each barrel to get them close. Final adjustment with actual shooting.

[John Rogers]

So far I haven't seen what your black powder load will be? I have shot up to 120 grains of FFG Goex in both my 45 caliber slug guns and have had no serious issues with recoil. One weighs 16 pounds with the scope and the Pedersoli Gibbs only weighs 12 pounds due to international rules and it "jumps" more but not a whole lot of kick. Sort of like a 12 gauge with 3 inch shells I guess so that one should not be too bad. My .58 bore under hammer with 90 grains of powder kicks a bit more but it only weighs 10 pounds. I guess the rifle's weight has quite a bit to do with recoil as well as the weight of the chunk of lead going down the barrel? If it were me I would start with 80 or 90 grains of FFG for a couple of shots to get used to it and then go up to whatever Pedersoli recommended. Their documentation seems to be pretty accurate.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by RF5BPilot

I get it that there's more to the process, but too bad the alignment process can't be shortened using laser pointers down each barrel to get them close. Final adjustment with actual shooting.

I'm sure they have a jig in which the barrels are aligned to their "best guess" for regulation. Such are the nuances of each individual rifle, however, that there is simply no way to get it "perfect" (or as close as possible) without actually shooting it.

Originally Posted by john rogers

So far I haven't seen what your black powder load will be? I have shot up to 120 grains of FFG Goex in both my 45 caliber slug guns and have had no serious issues with recoil. One weighs 16 pounds with the scope and the Pedersoli Gibbs only weighs 12 pounds due to international rules and it "jumps" more but not a whole lot of kick. Sort of like a 12 gauge with 3 inch shells I guess so that one should not be too bad. My .58 bore under hammer with 90 grains of powder kicks a bit more but it only weighs 10 pounds. I guess the rifle's weight has quite a bit to do with recoil as well as the weight of the chunk of lead going down the barrel? If it were me I would start with 80 or 90 grains of FFG for a couple of shots to get used to it and then go up to whatever Pedersoli recommended. Their documentation seems to be pretty accurate.

I have no idea what my load will be either. I'll let the rifle tell me. I can't see any less than at least 150 grains in a 12 bore; my long gone Pacific Rifle Company Zephyr accepted up to 300 grains, if I remember correctly. Most of what I can gather from the exalted experts of the inter webs is that these don't even begin to shoot well with less than 150 grains. Per Lyman's Black Powder Handbook, 150 grains of FFg behind a .715" diameter ball only gave 1,213 fps in a 43" barreled Brown Bess. Granted, rifled bores offer more resistance and higher velocities, but that stands as a fairly "light" load for a round ball shooter. We'll see. Hopefully it at least somewhat "regulates" at some load, and that's where I'll stay.

We have a show sponsored by the Cascade Mountain Men tomorrow. Guns, clothing, accruements of all kinds for sale and trade. I'll be heading to the range right after that.

[Charles Freeborn]

I was next to a fellow with a black powder long barrel pistol at the range once. Every time he set that thing off I'd have to wait for a couple of minutes for the smoke to clear so I could see my target.... Smells nice, though...