Covid-19 airborne?

[cabmandone]

I read a few articles yesterday about the WHO believing that COVID is airborne. I couldn't find that article but the link below states that hundreds of scientists are urging the WHO to revise their guidelines to reflect that Covid19 is airborne.

It doesn't seem like it can be or a Navy ship full of sailors, or cruise ship full of passengers, a trade show in NV full of people, a farm show in Louisville KY full of people... all would have been sick. I just don't see this being airborne. Granted the Louisville farm show was early on as was the Con Expo, but the virus was here when both took place.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/scientists-who-coronavirus-airborne-1.5638444

[onewhippedpuppy]

I heard it transferred in house cats.

By the way, this sort of nonsense is why people don’t trust the “science” associated with this debacle. Constantly issuing and then reversing guidance on a topic is a great way to lose the trust of the public.

[Seahawk]

Interesting viewpoint.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/stacey-lennox/2020/07/03/lies-damn-lies-and-covid-19-statistics-n603433

O’Connor and Dr. Atlas got into a discussion about how misleading the case metric is. It merely means a positive test. In the context of COVID-19, where approximately half of the cases are asymptomatic, it is a meaningless statistic. Further, as testing has become proactive, or required in some cases, and more widely available, saying there is a new case doesn’t denote illness.

Instead, Dr. Atlas asserts there should be a laser focus on who is getting infected and the death rate. He looks at each state’s data several times per day, and right now, the trend is clear. People who have confirmed cases of COVID-19 are in the younger age groups who do not suffer from severe illness. He says low-risk infections are a positive thing that will help us progress towards population immunity.

The data shows Dr. Atlas that we are doing an excellent job of protecting the vulnerable and preventing unneeded deaths. He even says the hospitalization numbers are misleading. For example, approximately 25-30% of patients are in the hospital with COVID-19, not for it. They come in for another medical reason and are tested, but have no symptoms.

Similarly, he notes ICU statistics are misleading. Citing Texas, which he reviewed because they are at 90% capacity, he said only 15% of those beds are occupied due to COVID-19. Regular medical care resumed, and patients not suffering from COVID-19 occupy the vast majority of the beds.

Other encouraging statistics include the length of stay and mortality. The time a COVID-19 patient spends in the hospital is half of what it was early in the pandemic. The mortality rate is 25% of what it was. He attributes this to spread to lower risk populations and improvement in treatment. Today’s news about hydroxychloroquine trials gives a reason for even more optimism. It may prevent hospitalizations if pushed to outpatient care on a broad scale.

Once this thing subsides and the real analysis is done, the results will be embarrassing.

He is right:

Dr. Atlas attributes backtracking by several governors to fear and ignorance. Several failed to do what was required to protect vulnerable populations early in the pandemic and are doing political calculations.

He says public health experts are engaged in sloppy thinking among smart people. Instead, they should be lowering the level of fear people have by giving a realistic assessment of the severity of the disease for most people. COVID-19 has a 99% recovery rate. You might not know that if you watch CNN.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Science is all about putting out hypotheses, allowing them to be independently tested via experimentation and (more often than not), debunked - occasionally supported.

The rigor of this process inherently leads to a lot of disappointment and is absolutely incompatible with the retarded attention span of the public-at-large today that can’t understand why researchers can’t just snap their fingers and make things happen, or have limitless knowledge about everything instantly.

That said, entities like the WHO and CDC need to learn to keep their yaps shut better or be VERY clear that “there are some indications that...” (which still have to be verified) rather than “studies show that...” (suggests there’s a critical mass of research evidence already in supporting a particular conclusion). Better still, just shaddup abut things until there really is a scientifically supportable body of independently-verified and supported findings.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I desperately hope that there is a scientific led bipartisan post-mortem of this entire debacle conducted, so we never go down this road again.

[fred cook]

What is the difference between the Boeing 737 and the Covid-19 virus? The virus is airborne!

[ZOO]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I heard it transferred in house cats.

By the way, this sort of nonsense is why people don’t trust the “science” associated with this debacle. Constantly issuing and then reversing guidance on a topic is a great way to lose the trust of the public.

The continuing change of guidance IS science though, right? This virus is less than a year old. We are constantly learning new things about it, and adjusting public health directives accordingly. It feels chaotic because it is chaotic — but that’s a result of a compressed time frame. New evidence leads to new thinking which leads to new guidance.

The public’s trust has been far more compromised by anti-science rhetoric over the last few decades, in my opinion, than by the current reality.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I heard it transferred in house cats.

By the way, this sort of nonsense is why people don’t trust the “science” associated with this debacle. Constantly issuing and then reversing guidance on a topic is a great way to lose the trust of the public.

It isn't, or rather it shouldn't be the science people don't trust. It is the "mouth piece" of the moment and the power behind that the mouth piece that is the entity not worthy of trust.

Originally Posted by ZOO

The continuing change of guidance IS science though, right? This virus is less than a year old. We are constantly learning new things about it, and adjusting public health directives accordingly. It feels chaotic because it is chaotic — but that’s a result of a compressed time frame. New evidence leads to new thinking which leads to new guidance.

The public’s trust has been far more compromised by anti-science rhetoric over the last few decades, in my opinion, than by the current reality.

Hear hear! Data properly generated by true science is not in and of itself corruptible. Only it's use is subject to corruption by self serving dishonest interests.

[ckelly78z]

A claim of "AIRBORN COVID-19" would stir the media into a frenzy, and force another shutdown by progressive governors....maybe that's the goal here ?

[1990C4S]

Or maybe there is no ulterior motive, aside from saving lives.

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Or maybe there is no ulterior motive, aside from saving lives.

Believe what you choose to believe, there are hidden forces at work here.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Or maybe there is no ulterior motive, aside from saving lives.

How's that herd of unicorns in your backyard faring lately? They happy?

90+% of the reaction to this problem has been solely determined by ulterior motives.

The future anaylsis of the response to this "crisis" is going to be painful and the left and the media are going to come out looking pretty bad. Even the healthcare industry is going to get some black eyes, because of the way we reimburse healthcare costs.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

I watched a webinar presented by an epidemiologist several months ago regarding this and potential spread through aerosols. The virus was found "here". The virus was found "there". It's viable for 3 hrs in the air, etc.

Scary stuff.

His advice for navigating the onslaught of new papers and data, many rushed to publication- take papers/ in vitro research with "coulds", "mights", and "potentially" with a grain of salt. Instead, look at research that emphasizes results- "It did" "It didn't", etc.

With that in mind, if data came out tomorrow that proved 100% of cases were transmitted through aerosol, the lack of transmission (at least in my field) so far- points to current protocols being (as far as I know) overall effective, even as the proportions between transmission modes get inevitably tweaked.

Each and every day is a new datapoint.

[RSBob]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Believe what you choose to believe, there are hidden forces at work here.

OMG. The last thing we need in this discussion is conspiracy theories.

It appears to me that rather than having various medical professionals and scientists shotgunning the latest and greatest, there needs to be a scientific body which vets the most recent findings comes to agreement and then releases the data through a single entity or voice. In that way public confidence will not be eroded by seeming contradictions or reversals, which there still may be some, but will be greatly reduced. My vote would be for the WHO since they are receiving data world wide. It would also render the crackpot “experts” voiceless, which we need to safeguard public health.

[island911]

This virus replicates in the lungs - known.

This virus sheds from asymptomatic people and infects others.

HOW can anyone say potentially spread through aerosols...?

I mean c'mon... This is so self-evident that even a guy like me has been saying it for months!

But everyone wear your mesh mask. You know, so that the llama's who spit the virus on others are contained.

[island911]

Originally Posted by RSBob

OMG. The last thing we need in this discussion is conspiracy theories.

It appears to me that rather than having various medical professionals and scientists shotgunning the latest and greatest, there needs to be a scientific body which vets the most recent findings comes to agreement and then releases the data through a single entity or voice. In that way public confidence will not be eroded by seeming contradictions or reversals, which there still may be some, but will be greatly reduced. My vote would be for the WHO since they are receiving data world wide. It would also render the crackpot “experts” voiceless, which we need to safeguard public health.

Consider that when he says hidden forces at work here. that he is speaking of emo rubes who are easily played.

Or is suggesting that possibility conspiracy theory too?

Seriously, just because you can't understand something that others do, does not make it a "conspiracy theory."

People, especially in nation governments, do actually conspire. Or are you suggesting that propaganda doesn't exist? --that sounds like a conspiracy theory !

[RSBob]

Understanding is only due when there is something to understand. And why not identify those “forces” so they can be validated or debunked? Won’t waste my time further discussing hypotheticals.

Hey Flatbutt, moved my bicycle seat back just about as far as it could go and far less shoulder pain. Thank you!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by RSBob

OMG. The last thing we need in this discussion is conspiracy theories.

It appears to me that rather than having various medical professionals and scientists shotgunning the latest and greatest, there needs to be a scientific body which vets the most recent findings comes to agreement and then releases the data through a single entity or voice. In that way public confidence will not be eroded by seeming contradictions or reversals, which there still may be some, but will be greatly reduced. My vote would be for the WHO since they are receiving data world wide. It would also render the crackpot “experts” voiceless, which we need to safeguard public health.

Really?! Your point is valid but your suggestion is to trust the “this is not a pandemic” and “no evidence of human transmission” WHO? Who blatantly lied for weeks to help the Chinese cover up the issue? Let’s make it a real dream team, bring in the UN and the IOC to help!

[island911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Really?! Your point is valid but your suggestion is to trust the “this is not a pandemic” and “no evidence of human transmission” WHO? Who blatantly lied for weeks to help the Chinese cover up the issue? Let’s make it a real dream team, bring in the UN and the IOC to help!

Oh, you conspiracy theorist!
Politicians wouldn't spin and lie.
They are part of grand institutions!
Always trust that they are giving you nothing but the truth!

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by fred cook

What is the difference between the Boeing 737 and the Covid-19 virus? The virus is airborne!

Well played!