The airbag thing... from another perspective

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by flipper35

The old ones could be overpowered since they were designed to protect the occupant that was NOT wearing a seatbelt. Stupid law in my opinion.

There is research that shows that not wearing a seatbelt with an airbag will cause more injury than wearing a seatbelt alone. Also, at high speeds the airbag is more likely to cause injury than prevent it. IMHO Five point harness at high speed is far more effective than an airbag.

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by flipper35

Takata airbags get moisture in them and they deploy without cause. There are so many that Takata likely will not recover from the recall and replacement of all of them.

Close to what is known but these units are not going off without cause. What is happening is due to the Ammonium Nitrate propellant in the igniter portion of the airbag assembly. As has been previously pointed out, the Ammonium Nitrate wafers do not contain a desiccant and are hydroscopic. In High Humidity/High Heat areas these igniters absorb water. The water causes the igniter to ignite at a rate far higher than originally designed. This drives metal fragments through the cab in a highly explosive matter which can cause serious injury (about 97 in the US so far) and death (10 confirmed in the US).

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Danimal16

There is research that shows that not wearing a seatbelt with an airbag will cause more injury than wearing a seatbelt alone. Also, at high speeds the airbag is more likely to cause injury than prevent it. IMHO Five point harness at high speed is far more effective than an airbag.

I agree, it was a stupid law and caused many deaths and injuries that could have been avoided. The newer, depowered units work better. (ish)

I friend had her wrist broken in a low speed impact when the airbag deployed pushing her arm onto the shift knob.

Thanks for clarifying the issue, I misread that they deployed sans crashing as well as the higher rate of combustion.

[sammyg2]

Back when i was a little kid in the mid 60's my dad had to make a whole bunch of business trips to detroit.

Seems they were trying to make a device that would expand like a balloon and keep the driver of a car from hitting the steering wheel or windshield in a crash, but the only problem was that it expanded so fast it would literally kill anyone near it.

They called in several top explosives R&D experts to develop a low explosive that was controllable, stable over a long time, and would be predictable and safe.
At the time he was the top explosives engineer at a company called Hercules.

After about a year his solution was ready to present, but ultimately his company did not get the contract.
His explosive solution would have cost about $5 dollars per car so they chose another product that was half the price even though it's predicted useful life was shorter.

Later they found that what they had was still too powerful and had to be dumbed down several times.

That's all I remember him telling me about it.

[wayner]

Well, nobody deserves to have their life source prematurely terminated...

[aigel]

I would not worry about the old air bags. I would worry about the overall safety of a car from 1994 as a daily driver. Take it forward 20 years and you have (from the top of my head):

Front air bags that are firing depending on the crash severity
Side air bags
Curtain air bags
Stability control
ABS (may have that in 94 depending on the car)
Seatbelt pre-tensioners
Much better crumple zone construction ...

I would not put my wife or family into a 94 as a daily driver ....

G

[sammyg2]

I remember back in the day when we used the steering wheel and brakes to avoid getting kilt.

AND IT WORKED!

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by wayner

Well, nobody deserves to have their life source prematurely terminated...

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

I remember back in the day when we used the steering wheel and brakes to avoid getting kilt.

AND IT WORKED!

Wait, you mean driving carefully! That really takes personal responsibility up a few notches. Paying attention to what is in front of you and keeping a safe distance with no distractions and using common sense is HARD.

Modern cars have tire pressure monitors because the MAJORITY of drivers were not smart enough to regularly use a tire gauge. All new cars and trucks must have backup cameras by 2018 because people can't backup.

No doubt ABS is a great thing. Traction control is a great thing. Soon all cars will stop all by themselves because so many bad drivers can't do it.

Cars will all have lane detection and "blind spot" warnings to warn bad drivers.

I guess all of that is needed for all the bad drivers on the road. I see those drivers all the time. Those are the people that NEED autonomous cars.

I will keep driving my old cars.

[wayner]

I fear that with kids learning to drive in this age of nannies, that they will not develop the basic skills at all.

Heck, event the advent of mirrors seems to have precipitated the extinction of shoulder checking. Now with blind spot warning who knows how oblivious new drivers will become?

[gacook]

Originally Posted by aigel

I would not worry about the old air bags. I would worry about the overall safety of a car from 1994 as a daily driver. Take it forward 20 years and you have (from the top of my head):

Front air bags that are firing depending on the crash severity
Side air bags
Curtain air bags
Stability control
ABS (may have that in 94 depending on the car)
Seatbelt pre-tensioners
Much better crumple zone construction ...

I would not put my wife or family into a 94 as a daily driver ....

G

My kids get old cars--I'm not dropping new car money on a 16-year old kid. They also get lots of teaching about maintenance of the vehicle, proper driving techniques, driving aware, etc. All the safety equipment in the world is great, but never needing any of that gear is even better. Personally, I've been in 1 wreck my entire life--back when I was a stupid teenager. Since then, it would be impossible to count how many "near misses" I've had that I was able to avoid simply by paying attention.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by gacook

Personally, I've been in 1 wreck my entire life--back when I was a stupid teenager. Since then, it would be impossible to count how many "near misses" I've had that I was able to avoid simply by paying attention.

Me too. When I was 16 driving to school one of the hot chicks on campus was wearing the typical tight mini skirt of the era. I was watching her anatomy and not the car in front of me that stopped at the red light, what was he thinking!

A few years later in 1978 I made the stupid assumption that the other driver was actually going to stop at the 4 way stop sign. She decided to not pay attention to stop signs that day and she hit me. No injuries in either accident. I have not had any tickets or accidents since then.

I can't count how many times I have been able to avoid other idiots. I had one lady look right at me and then pull right out in front of me. I think she wanted to be hit by a Porsche. I knew I could not stop in time but I could turn into where she pulled out. I did a full 4 wheel drift to avoid her and she just drove off. That is one reason I don't carry a gun, I would have shot her and I would have gone to jail even though she deserved to be shot.