1979: Detroit makes cars with flaming poultry. Meanwhile, VW/GTI/Scirocco/Golf

[sugarwood]

In 1979, Detroit was making cars with flaming poultry on it.
Meanwhile, it seems the Euro were laying the groundwork for domination of the next few decades.

It drives fantastic, feels like its on the track, steering is direct and precise, sounds wonderful.
I had owned many cars over the years, most much more expensive than this little VW but not many that drive this well. It fits like a glove.

I'd like to learn more about VW/GTI/Scirocco/Golf. A very significant part of modern “car culture” lies in the Subu/VW world.
It seems like this is what the next gen aspires to. The “hot hatch” is basically it. At least, has been it for the last decade



I just queued up this video to at least have a basic literacy of the evolution of the VW GTI lineage.

It's interesting to think that Scirocco started in all 1975, amidst the malaise Detroit was putting out.
Launched 40 years ago, just looking at it, it really is the DNA progenitor of today’s trendy “hot hatch”.



Ok, Scirocco was a "sportier" version of the Golf/Jetta. It mostly sold in manual gearbox. But, what exactly was the formula of performance? The first gen only had 70hp? Curb weight was 1940lbs. That's still a pitiful power:weight ratio. It looks like 2nd gen 1986 offered the 16V 123hp, which is still anemic but puts it into Miata/E30 territory.

For those who were adults in 1979, what was the appeal? The muscle era was over, and so was the gas shock. There was recession in 1979. What was the "car and driver" media like? Was it about light and nimble and handling vs. drag power. Has that always been the dichotomy? How was the styling received? As a kid, I never would have noticed the econoboxy looking Golf (or even Quattro) compared to the Trans Am. Even in the 80s, muscle cars seemed a lot cooler than a GTI which was basically a hopped up Rabbit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Scirocco
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_hatch

[oldE]

" What was the appeal?"
For me back then the appeal was made up of several things:
Handling and road feel. The cars seemed to put the driver in touch with the road in a very nice way. You could get along a twisty road at a very good turn of speed and not get beaten up by the car in the process.
Build quality. The early Golf (Rabbit) and Scirocco were well screwed together (The Pennsylvania Rabbits brought the Rabbit GTi but there was a dismal drop in build quality) Contrasted with the cars offered by North American companies at the time, they were impressive.
Cheap to run. At a time when V8s were struggling with first generation emission controls, the VWs' power to weight ratio wasn't so bad and they burned way less gas.

Best
Les

[RANDY P]

It was fast and nimble for back then. Performance wasn't so accessible- if you had something with 120HP, you advertised it. There were no subcompact "performance" cars back then- if it had a back door and was FWD it was beige and ****ty..

GTI was quick compared to other hatches of the day, not anymore thanks to modern ECU and an awareness of performance. GTI created the hot hatch segment and it's spinoffs.

[RANDY P]

I used to have an 84 GTI, before my 911. It was screwed together exceptionally well, but totally gutless up top..

I'd keep one around if I had the chance. Fun car to drive hard.

[fanaudical]

I didn't have a Scirroco, but a friend did. I had a '76 Audi Fox at the time, and another friend had a BMW 2002. All three of these were great transportation, didn't burn a lot of fuel, were great drivers and handled well compared to "big steel" from Detroit, relatively easy to work on, and just really fun to drive.

The Scrirroco was great at handling cargo and had a sporty feel to it (although the torque steer wasn't a great asset). The Fox and 2002 were always faster than the Scirroco.

[McLovin]

The standards were much lower back then. In the late 70s/early 80s anything under 10 seconds 0-60 was a relatively quick car. An 83 US GTI did 0-60 in around the same time as an 83 V8 TransAm, for example.

The original US GTI (83-84) also felt quicker than its numbers show. I don't know if it was the gearing, or whatever, but in regular street driving it felt really lively compared to other cars of the time. When you were city driving in 2nd or 3rd gear and punched it, it pulled surprisingly well.

[ckissick]

I bought a 1981 Scirocco new, and drove it for 16 years. I put well over 200K on it, and it had to be towed only one time. It was a little under-powered, but super fun to drive, anyway. It handled great. I lived at the top of a very twisty road, La Honda Road. (Corner of Highways 84 and 35 above Woodside, CA, if you're curious.)

You could drive one of these cars right on the edge, but still stay in control very easily. I used to race people on that road, and only lost once, to a long-hood 911 that a pony-tailed neighbor drove. He was very fast.

[petrolhead611]

It is quite simple.European cars were and still are built to take corners at speed and cruise at good highway speeds with lowish fuel consumption. To this end they are light, so they also stop better.

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

It was fast and nimble for back then. Performance wasn't so accessible- if you had something with 120HP, you advertised it. There were no subcompact "performance" cars back then- if it had a back door and was FWD it was beige and ****ty..

GTI was quick compared to other hatches of the day, not anymore thanks to modern ECU and an awareness of performance. GTI created the hot hatch segment and it's spinoffs.

That about sums it up. It looked good too. The competition at the time: Mustang II, Camaro, Firebird, Chrysler had nothing. As for imports: Toyota had the Carrolla, Honda had the Accord. Datsun came the closest with their Z car.

I liked the car.

[Seahawk]

I had a 1972 BMW 2002 when my roommate/cousin bought a Scirocco new in 1977.

The Scicorro was a tremendous jump in comfort and daily driver amenities - much more like the six cylinder BMW 320i my parent bought in 1977 than my by then humble 2002.

We had (still do) family all over Northern California and always took the Scicorro on road trips. Great car.

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

In 1979, Detroit was making cars with flaming poultry on it.

In 1979, Pontiac was continuing to apply those flaming chickens on the hoods of thier TransAms, however, that is a 1977-78 TransAm in the picture with the snowflake wheels (not available in 79) just like mine had.

[targa911S]

I had an 84 GTi it was a blast to drive. Like a mini cooper on steroids. I'm talking a real mini not the new one.

[unclebilly]

I think you guys are forgetting the other hot hatches of the time, the Toyota Celica, the Corolla SR5, and the Datsun Z cars.

The other thing to mention is that the Crovette of the day was only 200 HP tops.

[kach22i]

So, which of the cars mentioned are the collectibles going up in value?

I suspect that those flaming chickens go for a pretty penny these days.

The VW's of the day had a poor reputation for reliability, and the Scirocco worst of the lot.

At least that's what I recall.

Living in the shadow of the Beetle ain't easy.

[Rednine11]

I had a 79 Scirocco with a 4 speed when I was in high school. it was a great car and very fun to drive.

[aigel]

The golf was a huge leap forward after almost 40 years stagnation with the VW bug. But that is also because VW had zero innovation for 40 years ... It took Germany by storm and young guys were killing themselves left and right with the new found speeds in a small package ...

That said, I'd rather have a TA than a first gen Golf.

G

[andyt11]

20 years ago when I learned to drive (and was a teenager), I had Mk1 Golfs in the UK. Five of them. My brother had one and all my friends had them. They were really fairly awesome back in the day and we had a lot of fun thrashing them. They were all on fire at one point or another too come to think of it.

The euro GTi came with a 1.6 (110hp 8v) from about 78 to 81, and then a 1.8 (112hp 8v) for 82 and 83. Then the Mk2 came. With a few mods you could get torque up to about 120 ft/lbs from about 2000rpm onwards, which because the car was so light, made for a fun nimble package.

It was enough power to keep up with a lot of quick cars in the late 90's and early 2000's. It was a lot of fun to surprise much newer cars on the road by keeping up with them when they expected to leave you behind.

When I was 22 I moved to Canada, and a couple of years ago I decided I wanted another Mk1. It took a very long time to find a hard top that wasn't; a diesel; rotten; equipped with a horrible velour interior made by Buick. Sorry to any north american gti fans, but the Pennsylvania built A1 Rabbits with the square head lights, red / blue interiors, and the loss of 20 hp really killed the car for me. It just seems like the euro interior was so much nicer and the DX engine gave that little extra power that you wouldnt want to loose. I prefer the round lights too.

In the end I bought a bit of a mongrel this time around. Its a Canadian car from 77 and its had 40 years of people modifying it. Its not rotten and its complete at least, but that's about the best points! The engine is a two liter with a 288 cam, a chip and an exhaust. Its got rock hard coil overs too and the thing is a lot more fun to drive at autocross than on the road. On the road its borderline unpleasant to be in! But it isn't rotten, and its the closest I can get to a euro gti without bringing one over.

I cant figure out if this car is just a lot harder ride / lot louder / lot more rattly / breezy than all the ones I remember. Or perhaps I'm just old now, or perhaps cars have just moved on so much that we expect much more now than what we tolerated 20 years ago. Perhaps its all the above.

At this time, the shipping to bring a euro gti to North America doesn't work when you look at the values, but good gti's in the UK and in Germany are on the way up. Soon it may make sense. But then who are you going to sell it to here when you are done having fun?

Anyway, that's my babble about mk1 Gti's. I love them still. Oh, and the new one already had a small engine fire, but that was my fault. Par for the course it seems.

Here is a photo of the current one. Its on the road now after a year of electrical work.

[andyt11]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

It's interesting to think that Scirocco started in all 1975, amidst the malaise Detroit was putting out.

I often think this about my Porsche and my old Gti's, and consider the cars coming out of America during that time. Its neat to think that on the other side of the pond they were building 911's and GTi's.

Its perhaps not entirely fair though. They were also building things like the Austin Montego, Rover 200's and other such turds.

[greglepore]

The Mark 1's were really cool cars- Italian styling, German quality, nice rev band if low power, and most of all, nimble. Not ultimate anything but light on their feet. That was a revelation to the American mass market at the time. There was NOTHING here that came close (well, maybe the si civic). Flash forward 30 years where 400hp is commonplace and they may seem lame. But as Peter Egan once wrote, its much more fun to completely wring out a 90hp well set up econobox than it is to use 3/10's of a true performance car on the road.

GTI's on 3 wheels doing DSP autocross? More fun than a barrel of monkeys.

[andyt11]

Originally Posted by greglepore

But as Peter Egan once wrote, its much more fun to completely wring out a 90hp well set up econobox than it is to use 3/10's of a true performance car on the road.

GTI's on 3 wheels doing DSP autocross? More fun than a barrel of monkeys.

Thats true - you can flog the life out of this one that i have right now and you are barely breaking the speed limit. Sure feels fast though. And there is so much glass it's like being in a green house on wheels.

On three wheels actually.



Also, I can confirm, that the 1.9 205 GTi would pip the 1.8 Mk1. It was just a hair quicker. I think the rear suspension was more sophisticated too when pushed round a track. I can remember following a few and they didn't lift a rear wheel much if any.