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It can't be considered an outright fraud or scam because they have actually produced a real product being used in the real world. Hardly vaporware. It is nothing like the dot-com stock scams whose only purpose was to go IPO and cash out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarwood (Post 9159637)

What about taking deposits for the Powerwall 10K? That was vaporware. It didn't exist when advertised and will never exist in the form it was advertised.

Powerwall 7K? Well, it was advertised as 7kW for a year. It is 6.4 kWh.

Govt funding (with OPM) of a really rich guy is okay, because that's what all the cool <strike>kids</strike> crooks are doing. --that's what I'm hearing here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarwood (Post 9159586)

How unsustainable exactly? How do you see the endgame of Tesla? 5 years? 10 years?

This should help answer that.

http://www.arcenergyideas.com/wp-con...buary-2015.png

Read: plug-in electric cars are not the panacea. In fact, they are not even competitive, even in those days of high buyer subsidies, when gas prices where much higher.

As it is, for the mot part, their biggest sales motivator comes from to the people who want to project, to the world, that they think that the world needs more (really expensive) canned unicorn for the masses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick-l (Post 9159454)

How is funding an unsustainable startup and buying a fighter built to your specifications comparable?

you are correct. The F-35 costs the taxpayers $1.5 trillion and is a failure. No comparison.

WTF are you talking about?

Quote:

The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II is a family of single-seat, single-engine, all-weather stealth multirole fighters undergoing final development and testing by the United States. The fifth generation combat aircraft is designed to perform ground attack and air defense missions. The F-35 has three main models: the F-35A conventional takeoff and landing (CTOL) variant, the F-35B short take-off and vertical-landing (STOVL) variant, and the F-35C carrier-based Catapult Assisted Take-Off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) variant. On 31 July 2015, the first squadron was declared ready for deployment after intensive testing by the United States.[14][15]

The F-35 is descended from the X-35, which was the winning design of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program. It is being designed and built by an aerospace industry team led by Lockheed Martin. Other major F-35 industry partners include Northrop Grumman, Pratt & Whitney and BAE Systems. The F-35 took its first flight on 15 December 2006. The United States plans to buy 2,457 aircraft. The F-35 variants are intended to provide the bulk of the manned tactical airpower of the U.S. Air Force, Navy and the Marine Corps over the coming decades. Deliveries of the F-35 for the U.S. military are scheduled to be completed in 2037[16] with a projected service life up to 2070.[17]

F-35 JSF development is being principally funded by the United States with additional funding from partners. The partner nations are either NATO members or close U.S. allies. The United Kingdom, Italy, Australia, Canada, Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands, and Turkey are part of the active development program;[18][19] several additional countries have ordered, or are considering ordering, the F-35.

The program is the most expensive military weapons system in history, and it has been the object of much criticism from those inside and outside government—in the US and in allied countries.[20] Critics argue that the plane is "plagued with design flaws," with many blaming the procurement process in which Lockheed was allowed "to design, test, and produce the F-35 all at the same time, instead of ... [identifying and fixing] defects before firing up its production line."[20] By 2014, the program was "$163 billion over budget [and] seven years behind schedule."[21] Critics further contend that the program's high sunk costs and political momentum make it "too big to kill."[22]

Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II

The Tesla does nothing to keep this country safe. Hell, it doesn't even have cup-holders in the back to keep safe from spills. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-beard (Post 9159655)

Powerwall 7K? Well, it was advertised as 7kW for a year. It is 6.4 kWh.

Please list all of the lawsuits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 9159846)

The Tesla does nothing to keep this country safe.

neither does the F-35

" the most expensive military weapons system in history,"

Yeah, nothing worthwhile there. And because it is an exercise in futility, then rich-guy car company can also be an exercise in futility. (from OPM)

got it.

Elon Musk: Tesla Model S Can Be Used Like A Boat For “Short Periods Of Time”
https://consumerist.com/2016/06/20/elon-musk-tesla-model-s-can-be-used-like-a-boat-for-short-periods-of-time/
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FszARiU_jRI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now I really want one.

we have two. great daily drivers. torque is addictive. no problems so far (cross our fingers).

How Tesla Motors Could Be Profitable if It Wanted To
Tesla's not about to abandon its growth plans.
How Tesla Motors Could Be Profitable if It Wanted To -- The Motley Fool
https://g.foolcdn.com/editorial/imag...sity_large.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 9168566)

From the link "While internal combustion engine vehicles have an exhaust pipe near that ground that can easily get clogged in deep water, battery-powered cars have no such thing, and thus don’t have to worry about anything flooding."

Good god, seriously? ...Clogged exhaust pipe? :rolleyes:

Yes, water and electrics go together like...

BTW, I have an old vanagon that...
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/4WbcXSG5tgI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Note the 'clogged exhaust" :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by kach22i (Post 9171930)

More stupidity right thar.

DO you really believe that graph?

of course you do... :-/

spam

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothye (Post 9172253)

Business starts out as a massive scam, sanctioned by the government, why would it not think it can behave like the government?[i mg]http://yeahonline market ing.com/apple/im ages/6.gif[/img]
[i mg]http://ye ahonline marketing.com/apple/im ag es/4.gif[/img] [i mg]http://yeahonlinem arketing.com/ap ple/im ages/1 4.gif[/img]