Question for the cycling crowd...

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Jeff-I have a Supersix and an aero bike-a Willier Cento Uno. The Willier is similar in shape but lacks the integrated brakes. It does have some aero benefit, at above 20 mph and on descents, but it doesn't climb as well. Its comfortable for an aero bike, but big bumps are MUCH less damped than on the Supersix. I'd save the money and put di2 on the C'dale. It's cheap right now as Shimano is about to introduce a very incrementally new DA and the old stuff is being blown out.
And honestly, there's no way you can do a t1000 bike in Japan for that price. No way.

Greg,

Appreciate the feedback. I do ride a Giant Propel Advanced from time to time and can sense the aero benefit when the speeds are up. But I can also tell the difference on the SuperSix when the 50mm wheels are on it. I do love the ride comfort of the SuperSix, but in reality most training rides are in the 70-80kms range (occasionally up over 100) and often shorter depending on what race is approaching. I have bricks to often it is a ride and then a run.

Where can one find an Ultegra Di2 set up for a good price? I have searched, but my searching skills suck... I would take my 105/Ultegra set up off the bike and put it on my son's Specialized.

It looks like the Leopard uses T1000 in a few areas and the balance is T800.

I have wasted far greater funds on other unwise purchases in the past. But this one really intrigues me. Maybe I fall directly in the path of their target marketing. Plus, it has a 7 day money back guarantee....

Thanks again to all for the feebdack!

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

And another voice of dissent.

Cool looking bike, but the more I looked at the website, the less I was impressed. Considerable fluff alert, and from a startup and unknown design, I don't want fluff.

I think if you knew the guys pitching the idea and had a vested interest in making the idea work, it might be the right decision. It could very well turn out to be a good bike, but a whole bunch of new design elements make me want to wait until they've ironed out the bugs.

On the plus side, at least it weighs a lot less than the "typical 35 lb" bike they compared it to....

Yes, the marketing hype is in overdrive for sure...

[LEAKYSEALS951]

^Yeah, like others said, the appeal is the price. If it's a disposable amount, then what the heck!

I know how it is when something speaks to me in the world of cycling, so I'm not going to try and stop ya!

I had the same concerns that Greg mentioned. I remembered reading how one of the companies (BMC? Cervelo?) had experimented with overbuilding stiffness in parts of the frame such as the bb area, etc, and had reported that at a certain point things got way to stiff and had a detrimental effect on not just the feel of the bike, but actual handling, so they had to back off a bit for the final products. This frame, with the lowered seatstays, overbuilt chainstays, and a brake running through a relatively high stress area (designed and tested on an exercise bike by a "frog" no less ) in the seatube made me wonder. From the lack of data, to the misspelling of "money back GUAURANTEE", I was getting less trusting by the minute.

But then at that price... how can you complain? So now I am intrigued!

If you do buy it, please post pics! From a structural standpoint, it would be interesting to see how they ended up routing the rear brake. The drawings for the frame show it coming out the back of the seat tube in the area of the front derailleur, yet the pictures of what appear to be an actual frame show the rear brake near the bb under the chainstays.

Good luck and keep us posted! It could be a decent bike!

[greglepore]

Jeff- try Merlin in the UK or Ribble. Its mostly D/A that's discounted now but you only need a mini group. Btw, I really like the Liv. And yeah, I run 50's on both bikes and can feel them. My fave wheels are early 2000's LEW tubies, 40mm or so and only around 1100 g. He's now the chief wheel guy at Reynolds.


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[look 171]

Great price for a bike like it. I am with others here and am concern about the tech stuff if it goes wrong. Who will fix it? I like that live feel on a bike if not I don't really want to ride it. There's nothing like getting out of the saddle and feel a dead log that you have get cranking just to get it going every time. Is your plan to race this bike and train on your Cannondale? I understand these purchases are purely emotional buys. I ahve been there and have gotten used to riding a bike I didn't really like out of the box. The Trek OCLV frame was one of them. Rode it for two seasons and gave it away.

[Jeff Alton]

Greg,

Thanks for the sites, perfect. I only seem to frequent biketiresdirect... 1100g wheel set is light! I like my Reynolds. Not the lightest by a fair margin, but super durable and money well spent (at the price I paid). I would love to try some other lighter wheels to see if I can feel the difference or not.

Look 171,

Yes, I think I would train on the Cannondale and prep/race on this new machine- assuming it is good Dont' want to make a mistake purchase though...

Leakyseals,

Yes, If I do get one I will post plenty of pics and feedback. But, I am no pro rider or magazine contributor, so take all opinions with a grain of salt...

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by Won

Hi Duane!

I did watch their fund-me video and basically what they have is an unknown-background carbon bike with some new electronic gizmo which is not far off Garmin and other kits by now, I imagine. So, at the end of the day their selling point is the price.

I'm all for supporting start-ups but unless they can prove significant credentials in composite design and manufacture, I would say it the price point may not be worth it compared to the name brands and (hopefully) their experience. Trust me Jeff, I've seen things in this industry and still so much is left to black magic. Just because someone can learn to drive an FEA software in a week and buy some T1000 prepreg doesn't mean they actually know what they're doing...

Won,

Thanks for the input, and yes I know you know what you are talking about!

Cheers

[look 171]

Jeff,

Sounds like most of your racing is riding solo against the clock, then why not get a dedicated time trial bike (they aren't the most comfortable for general riding) for racing and some training? I bet for general riding an training, you will more then likely grab he Cannondale. Funny that there's always that go to bike. I am a firm believer in race and train on the same equip. (with the exception of wheels, but that was long ago) so you body reacts to it as everyday riding. he more comfortable one is on the bike, the more power they produce.

[look 171]

BTW, you will love DI2.

[Jeff Alton]

Good point, and I have considered a Tri/TT specific bike. Have ridden a few. I can't really seem to get a good ride out of one (phrasing? ) The road race geometry just really seems to suit me.

I am the fool that trains on his race wheels... But my race wheels aren't exotic, simple Reynolds Aero. Except indoors, then I am on the RS-11s.

Very intrigued by DI2, looking forward to it.

Thanks again for all the great feedback.

On another note, what is everyone's favorite tire?

Cheers

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Vittoria rubino pro kevlar bead.
Cheap, replaceable, light, durable, just about puncture proof for the first 1000+ miles. has a kevlar belt to prevent punctures. has a kevlar bead as opposed to wire bead for light weight. Also comes in an assortment of whatever flaming (or lack of flaming) color you want.

If I was doing a lot of gravel road- 28c gatorskin.

Rubino pro- A good "everything" tire

fwiw edit- also need to add. some comments were made about "training" vs "racing" bikes. I couldnt agree more. I have a specialized something or other. Ride it daily. Also have a BMC 950 gram frame as well.
Interesting thing is that I can't sprint worth a darn on the BMC. It sits in the garage like a classic ferrari as wall art. Love it- but I need several weeks of practice to re-learn how to pedal out of the saddle on it to make it work. WAAAAAYYY too much work. I ride the generic specialized instead. (This after riding 2 Fondriests for 10+ years)

[Jeff Alton]

Never used a Vittoria, good to know.

May faves are the Continental GP4000 II, Michelin Pro4 Comp Service Course, Bontrager R3.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

Good point, and I have considered a Tri/TT specific bike. Have ridden a few. I can't really seem to get a good ride out of one (phrasing? ) The road race geometry just really seems to suit me.

I am the fool that trains on his race wheels... But my race wheels aren't exotic, simple Reynolds Aero. Except indoors, then I am on the RS-11s.

Very intrigued by DI2, looking forward to it.

Thanks again for all the great feedback.

On another note, what is everyone's favorite tire?

Cheers

Time trial bikes aren't suppose to be comfortable. All the traditional or typical settings are off. Hunch over sitting on the tip of the saddle and the body flat out for aero position. No fun and they handle like crap, doesn't climb well and don't try to sprint on them. The Italian national tt team one time had a rope or chain to keep the riders nose to the bars for best aero position. Udo Bolts, a German rider from the old GDR turned pro once said about TT bikes and their position. He retired and started to do tri and claim that aero position isn't critical on tri races, comfort by far out weights the nose to the bar set up. He ended raising up his handle bar for the tri race ad did very well.

A friend who like the latest and greatest bike tech (he just likes to spend money) swears by the Cervelo aero road bike. He claims he can push a whole mile an hour faster on it. Now aero wheels, I do believe and swear by them or any light wheels for that matter. I have never been a big fan of aero bikes (wheels exception), The weight penalty, and catching cross wind is not too much fun. I no longer compete. Have not done it for over 15 years but still like the hammer head rides.

[greglepore]

Tires-Vittoria Open Corsa CX summer, Open Pave winter. Both superseded by a new tire, which is great, but these are now in Rubino $$ territory. Great tires til they get thin. Use wide wheels, run 25's at 85 psi and they are awesome, almost tubular feeling. Not quite, but almost.

On any aero bike, but particularly a tt bike, saddle is critical. The Specialized Power/Adamo/Dash type short nosed saddles seem to work for a lot of folks. I'm not saddle critical, but I love my power on anything up to a century. Its a sort of one position saddle, but it disappears. Use a Romin Evo on the c'dale, also like smp and fizik arione on that bike.

Cervelo S3 is a pretty good bike for all around aero/road use, but it sounds like Jeff might prefer the S5 for his intended duty.

[rwest]

Tire wise, I've been using Michelin Pro Race on my road bike with pretty good results. First set of tires that I used where Vittorias and I can't agree with the others- I had flat after flat. Mentioned them to the guys at the track and they said, "oh, Flattorias?" so apparently it wasn't just me, although I don't remover what model I used, they would have been a higher end. Also, this was about fifteen years ago. Lots of time for improvement.

I "dream"of an independent test lab that figures out a set of parameters including flat resistance that would test just about every tire each year and publish a report!

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

What do you think of this machine?

https://www.speedx.com/en/leopardpro/



Seriously considering...

I know nothing, but I like this!

[look 171]

Yep, I love Vittoria CXs too but my new found love is Schwable. The grip is tremendous and the feel is the best clincher tire I have ridden. They do not last long and anything and everything will poke through it. I don't get too many flats often and life is too darn short to ride tires that just don't feel bouncy and hard. I ride 23 and 25 tires but they are always pumped up to 110psi. I dislike the bounce on an under inflated tire.

[Jeff Alton]

A schwable ONE, Lougano or?

[look 171]

Schwable One. Ride a other tires for sometime, and switch over to the Schwable. I can tell immediate difference and I am sure you can too. I get em' up to ab out 120lbs

[Bill Verburg]

My favorite is the Conti Gp4000S very low rolling resistance good grip, good puncture resistance

I had a set of Schwalbe(sp?) they were ok but didn't last long and were very prone to punctures

I'm a big boy and run ~120psi and do 40-50mi a day in season, 6k mi last year, last long and puncture resistance are #1 & 2 on my priority list

here's one interesting study comparing various tires