987/997 IMS problem fix Direct Oil Feed?

[masraum]

I happened across this today and thought it was interesting. Anyone heard of it? I haven't heard it mentioned before.

IMS Bearing Direct Oil Feed (DOF)® – TuneRS Motorsports

They don't let you copy/paste text from the above link.

But they didn't put the same restriction on their other link
DIRECT OIL FEED (DOF)

While working on rebuilds for a number of water cooled Carreras and Boxsters in the late 2000s, we noticed that the much talked about culprit of many engine failures on many of these engines was not necessarily just the IMS or Intermediate Shaft Bearing. While some will argue about the bearing design or the short shaft found in water cooled Turbo Carreras and air cooled Porsches vs the long shaft found in the water cooled non Turbo Carreras, Boxsters and Caymans up until 2008 as the issue for the high number of engine failures. We noticed that the common issue was due to the sealed IMS bearing eventually losing its internal lubrication and the IMS bearing requiring more oil lubrication to help increase its longevity.

They've engineered a kit to provide cooled and filtered oil directly to the IMS bearing. The kit looks reasonably priced. They do not include a new bearing. I believe this kit is designed for folks that want to do the install before it gets to that point. I think they mention in the first link that you can use the stock bearing or any number of other bearings including ceramic and roller. Anyway, it sounds like an interesting solution.

Anyone heard about it or got any thoughts?

I'm not in the market for a fix, just thought it was an interesting solution that sounds like it might be better than any other solution out there.

[impactbumper]

It is an alternative at best. 06+ cars have nothing to worry about.

[rusnak]

I would say if you have a Boxster or Cayman, dump it. And get one of the newer models before the prices go up. They're still a bargain right now for used low mileage cars, but that will not last.

[impactbumper]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I would say if you have a Boxster or Cayman, dump it. And get one of the newer models before the prices go up. They're still a bargain right now for used low mileage cars, but that will not last.

Wait what? Boxsters and Caymans?

[rusnak]

^ I think I'm agreeing with your first post. I picked up an '11 987.2 "S". 38,000 miles for an embarrasingly low price. It was on the market for much more, did not move, and the seller slashed $20K off the price right before I snapped it up. It is NO replacement for my air/oil cooled Carrera, but it's a hell of a kick in the pants, and has better AC than the 911.

And the best part? Direct fuel injection, no IMS, and no worries driving in this freaking heat, waiting for a bearing to melt after shutdown.

[manbridge 74]

I've installed one per customer request.
The weak link is the one fitting with an o-ring.
I like flared metal to metal connections.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by rusnak

^ I think I'm agreeing with your first post. I picked up an '11 987.2 "S". 38,000 miles for an embarrasingly low price. It was on the market for much more, did not move, and the seller slashed $20K off the price right before I snapped it up. It is NO replacement for my air/oil cooled Carrera, but it's a hell of a kick in the pants, and has better AC than the 911.

And the best part? Direct fuel injection, no IMS, and no worries driving in this freaking heat, waiting for a bearing to melt after shutdown.

Might want to research carbon buildup associated with the DFI......

[DWBOX2000]

Ims is way overblown in my opinion. Does it happen, yes. As frequent as these sites would suggest. No.
A guy is selling a low mile 986 down the street from my house. He's owned for 10 years. He was smitten over the car and condition. Rightfully so, beautiful car. I was about to ask him about the ims being replaced and decided against it. The people thAt don't know about it are the lucky ones.
I replaced mine, the original was perfect At 50k. Spend some time over on the boxster board and you'll read lots of posts about cars hitting 150k with zero issues.
I always wonder what kind of drivers the people that have these fail are? My neighbors son blew the motor on his new f150. Father wAs surprised. Drove many fords. I wasn't, his son is a major gear head with a history of breaking motorcycle frames and overreving dirtbikes. Everything hAs it's breaking point.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Ims is way overblown in my opinion. Does it happen, yes. As frequent as these sites would suggest. No.
A guy is selling a low mile 986 down the street from my house. He's owned for 10 years. He was smitten over the car and condition. Rightfully so, beautiful car. I was about to ask him about the ims being replaced and decided against it. The people thAt don't know about it are the lucky ones.
I replaced mine, the original was perfect At 50k. Spend some time over on the boxster board and you'll read lots of posts about cars hitting 150k with zero issues.
I always wonder what kind of drivers the people that have these fail are? My neighbors son blew the motor on his new f150. Father wAs surprised. Drove many fords. I wasn't, his son is a major gear head with a history of breaking motorcycle frames and overreving dirtbikes. Everything hAs it's breaking point.

In the 986 forum there was a survey done of Boxsters by various years of those who experienced ims failure and those who did not. Some years experienced a 5% failure rate which I think is significant. Some people would be scared off by that rate and some would not. Owning a Porsche is not just any car experience. It can be expensive in repairs and of course less if you work on cars yourself.

Spending several thousand $$ on an old Boxster makes little sense unless you keep it a long time. It is a crap shoot if you don't replace the ims. Is the buying of an old Boxster worth the price of admission? You bet. But the prospective buyer I would hope would do some research on what he/she is getting into. Many would not bother and are surprised when the engine goes kaboom....

[DWBOX2000]

A pelican poll is hardly scientific but point taken. My question would be the people blowing up there motors, what kind of drivers are they? I would expect the ims rate to skyrocket considering the prices are so low.
1) the kids buying are probably driving like an americAn muscle car.
2) maintenance is expensive so stuff happens.
I certainly would not buy one from a youngster. If someone is worried, buy the car, swap the ims and boxster on. Still a bargain in the grand scene of sports cars.
David

[intakexhaust]

You want your fix? These guys- haha

Renegade Hybrids

[speeder]

Originally Posted by impactbumper

It is an alternative at best. 06+ cars have nothing to worry about.

Who told you that?

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by impactbumper

It is an alternative at best. 06+ cars have nothing to worry about.

Ha ! That's funny...

I have a couple friends who might wanna disagree with that statement, broken engine parts in hand ;-) You meant 09, surely ?

[impactbumper]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Ha ! That's funny...



I have a couple friends who might wanna disagree with that statement, broken engine parts in hand ;-) You meant 09, surely ?

I work on tons of 987/997 cars. Without sitting and counting, I can easily tell you I have more customers with 06+ cars than the number of your buddies.

I have installed 100+ LN Engineering ims bearing upgrade kits, and a couple of these OP mentioned.

So dear sir, i have a pretty good resume on the m96 and m97 motors. In other words, I know what i am talking about, humbly so.

What I would agree with you is 2000-2005.5 cars.

Even those, i have only seen a couple failures. It did/does happen though.

Failure rate on 2006+ motors is next to nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by impactbumper

I work on tons of 987/997 cars. Without sitting and counting, I can easily tell you I have more customers with 06+ cars than the number of your buddies. I have installed 100+ LN Engineering ims bearing upgrade kits, and a couple of these OP mentioned.
So dear sir, i have a pretty good resume on the m96 and m97 motors. In other words, I know what i am talking about, humbly so.
What I would agree with you is 2000-2005.5 cars.

Failure rate on 2006+ motors is next to nothing.

ImpactBumper,
I appreciate your reply (and maybe shouldn't have written mine jokingly)...
Sadly, I'm not sure your #s are any more statistically significant than mine - they're somewhat bigger for sure (do you have rough % out of curiosity?)- but also not necessarily representative of the overall picture either - we don't know because Porsche isn't telling. From my frame of reference, it's a scary # as I don't know that many M97 owners personally, and I'm 2 for 4 ;-) (note I'm not implying that's the rate, obviously)

you wrote" 06+ cars have nothing to worry about" - later amended to "failure rate is next to nothing".... Respectfully, tell that to both my buddies: 06 cayman S (tracked) and 07 997S (never seen a track) who each paid $25000 or so to get a new engine installed, out of warranty (one admittedly went RUF instead, so might have been cheaper for the other who went via dealer).

I respect your better stat and mechanical talent (truly, not picking argument here), and I also agree with all that the IMS issue is probably overblown. But when it happens to you, it must suck big time... Even if it's 5%, it could be you and as you know, you can't LN-fix an 06+ engine, unless you split the case. That sucks too... I think the market sided that way too - I've been looking for a 997.2 and I can tell you they command a substantial premium.. Thanks for the reply !!!

[impactbumper]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

ImpactBumper,
I appreciate your reply (and maybe shouldn't have written mine jokingly)...
Sadly, I'm not sure your #s are any more statistically significant than mine - they're somewhat bigger for sure (do you have rough % out of curiosity?)- but also not necessarily representative of the overall picture either - we don't know because Porsche isn't telling. From my frame of reference, it's a scary # as I don't know that many M97 owners personally, and I'm 2 for 4 ;-) (note I'm not implying that's the rate, obviously)

you wrote" 06+ cars have nothing to worry about" - later amended to "failure rate is next to nothing".... Respectfully, tell that to both my buddies: 06 cayman S (tracked) and 07 997S (never seen a track) who each paid $25000 or so to get a new engine installed, out of warranty (one admittedly went RUF instead, so might have been cheaper for the other who went via dealer).

I respect your better stat and mechanical talent (truly, not picking argument here), and I also agree with all that the IMS issue is probably overblown. But when it happens to you, it must suck big time... Even if it's 5%, it could be you and as you know, you can't LN-fix an 06+ engine, unless you split the case. That sucks too... I think the market sided that way too - I've been looking for a 997.2 and I can tell you they command a substantial premium.. Thanks for the reply !!!

Anytime. 09+ DFI cars are great and of your best interest. Good luck


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[rusnak]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Might want to research carbon buildup associated with the DFI......

ooh.

What do other guys do to address it? Do the injectors have to be taken out to be sent in for cleaning?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by impactbumper

I work on tons of 987/997 cars. Without sitting and counting, I can easily tell you I have more customers with 06+ cars than the number of your buddies.

I have installed 100+ LN Engineering ims bearing upgrade kits, and a couple of these OP mentioned.

So dear sir, i have a pretty good resume on the m96 and m97 motors. In other words, I know what i am talking about, humbly so.

What I would agree with you is 2000-2005.5 cars.

Even those, i have only seen a couple failures. It did/does happen though.

Failure rate on 2006+ motors is next to nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What was changed in '06 to make failures next to nothing?

I have a friend w an '07 997S that is on its 3rd engine, courtesy of Porsche. He bought it new, first IMS failure @ 60k miles, (engine replaced under warranty), then replacement motor grenaded @ 120k miles, another IMS failure. Porsche ate it, since it was their replacement motor w 60k miles and car was all dealer serviced on time. It's a street driven car, no abuse. Just normal spirited driving.

I'd love for you to be right, since I'd buy one if you were but this is the first I've ever heard anyone say that an '06 is a significant design change.

[impactbumper]

Originally Posted by speeder

What was changed in '06 to make failures next to nothing?

I have a friend w an '07 997S that is on its 3rd engine, courtesy of Porsche. He bought it new, first IMS failure @ 60k miles, (engine replaced under warranty), then replacement motor grenaded @ 120k miles, another IMS failure. Porsche ate it, since it was their replacement motor w 60k miles and car was all dealer serviced on time. It's a street driven car, no abuse. Just normal spirited driving.

I'd love for you to be right, since I'd buy one if you were but this is the first I've ever heard anyone say that an '06 is a significant design change.

Sorry about your friend's troubles.

IMS was updated by Porsche in 2006. Late 2006 to end of production M97 2008 cars had revised engines. This netted significant drop in engine failures.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by impactbumper

Sorry about your friend's troubles.

IMS was updated by Porsche in 2006. Late 2006 to end of production M97 2008 cars had revised engines. This netted significant drop in engine failures.

So, if I understand you correctly, You're saying that the early engines had a certain percentage of failures (just to pick a round number, lets say 5%). And then the last couple of years had an update that drastically reduced their chances of failure (lets say 1% or maybe .5%). Then I think we can all agree that as of 2009, there's 0% chance since there is no IMS.