Education on what to do in the case of an active shooter

[Tobra]

Went to a presentation at the hospital last night done by the Sacramento PD on active shooter response, both by individuals and the police. He talked about some of the mass casualty events in the last decade, what has changed in the response as we have learned about how they operate. Interesting that we already had something worked out in the department where I primarily am. Former Army demolition guy came up with a very good plan.


Sort of reinforced what I already thought, for example, best thing to do is get the heck out of there. Shelter in place is okay for a hurricane, not so much for someone looking to kill as many people as they can. Interesting that the police communication devices quit working the moment they get inside the hospital. The officer that did our presentation has been working on funding to get signal repeaters installed in the hospitals so they won't have to use cell phones in the hospital.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[Rikao4]

would think the Hospital would spring for the repeaters..
no commo..
= nothing changed much since 9/11 in many places..
that includes the LEO's..
as various department / agencies..
still don't have the means to communicate with each other when SHTF..

Rika

[MRM]

That sounds like good common sense. The other thing that I've heard is that if you can't escape, you're actually safer charging the attacker and trying to disable him or take the weapon. The reasoning is that it is hard to hit a moving target, and even harder to make a stopping shot at someone rushing you. Even shot, your momentum would carry you into a shooter. If you can get that close, you have an equal chance to gain control of the weapon as you wrestle for it.

At least it sounds good in theory.

[Joe Bob]

Boogie and only stand your ground if you have no other place to go. Then empty all cylinders or the mag into the asswipe.

[HarryD]

Took active shooter training last year. My take away:
1-Get out if you can do so safely;
2-Hide if you can be unseen;
3-Attack aggressively with what ever weapon or thing you can lay your hands on. No warning just attack until the shooter is rendered incapable of further action or you are stopped by a responder. At this point it is him or you. Make it you.

Be aware that the responders are not there to rescue you or render aid, only to take out the shooter. Rescue will come later.

I have noticed that the responders response has changed from slowly securing everything, negotiate etc to a fast tempo of getting there, set up, and find the shooter.

[HarryD]

HTTPS://www.dhs.gov/publication/active-shooter-pocket-card

[Rick Lee]

I read a good article on this a few weeks ago, forgot where. If you end up confronting the shooter, the article urged extreme violence toward the bad guy, no pussyfooting around. I really don't think most people are wired for that these days. They have to know they're SOL if they can't escape, but it's crazy to think the police will rescue you. Not too much stuff in the office is going to protect your from any kind of rifle round. You may have a chance against handguns, but rifle rounds will penetrate just about anything you're usually around other than cinder block walls. Office and closet doors won't do anything other than obscure the view. Of all the offices I've worked in, I think the hallway fire extinguisher and a letter opener are about the only things that could help you if you need a weapon.

[Mark Henry]

One thing that is becoming a big issue with open carry is the cops don't know who is a good guy or a bad guy.

Open-carry gun laws create chaos, fuel 'us vs. them' mentality of police - World - CBC News

I take weapons defence training, any weapon rule #1 is run like hell.

[Norm K]

I don't care that these days I'm just an old broken down Marine (at least when compared to a 17-50 year old version of me) with pain in nearly every part of my body: I will not hide. I will not run. I'm coming at you with whatever I can pick up on the way and you can stand the eff by when I get there.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Norm K

I don't care that these days I'm just an old broken down Marine (at least when compared to a 17-50 year old version of me) with pain in nearly every part of my body: I will not hide. I will not run. I'm coming at you with whatever I can pick up on the way and you can stand the eff by when I get there.

I'm not sure of the source but somewhere I read that the best thing to do in an active shooter is move toward them.
I guess the logic was if everyone jumps the shooter he will be disabled sooner rather than later.

[Rikao4]

it probably is..
alas..
most will go to their facebook page..
or go to video ..hoping it goes viral...

Rika

[Jrboulder]

I agree with HarryD, it depends on the options of the situation.

I'm acquainted with a guy who got shot in Aurora trying to run out of the theater. Probably not the best reaction to the situation.

[id10t]

I work in a gun free zone so I've not bothered with a CCW permit.

I *do* have lots of improvisable weapons around my desk... and a quick shot out a mostly-hidden hallway to the parking lot... where I will most times be able to arm up. Should it come to that, I'll be staying at/in/near my car with something quickly available in the car - ie open trunk, load it, leave it in the case in the trunk, close trunk. Have no dreams of being a hero, don't wanna be a hero, don't get paid to be a hero, but dammed if I'll leave myself defenseless when I don't have to.

FWIW the only really nasty event we've had on campus a guy walks into his soon-to-be-ex's office and cuts her throat, dropped the knife, and ran out. Got on the interstate and headed north, was caught just after he crossed into Georgia.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

I'm acquainted with a guy who got shot in Aurora trying to run out of the theater. Probably not the best reaction to the situation.

If you consider it a bit, it probably is the best thing to do.

WRT attacking with the good sergeant suggested that if they were attacking your child, you could muster plenty of violence. Whether you lose your kid or they lose you, either way you never see each other again

[island911]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

One thing that is becoming a big issue with open carry is the cops don't know who is a good guy or a bad guy. ..

You mean if there is a good guy, on the inside, knowing the situation for minutes before police arrive . .. that his (or her) returning fire is a bad thing?

And what if the next bad-guy shooter is wearing a blue uniform? How will the cops know?

Point is, this notion, that only the police should engage, is ridiculous.

[stomachmonkey]

GTFO is good advice.

But it's kind of tough in a hospital.

What do you do with patients who are not ambulatory?

Just leave them?

Tell em, sorry, sucks for you but I'm outa here?

Tough situation for hospital staff.

[madmmac]

We went through the active shooter scenario at work in our safety meeting a couple of months ago. In our area there is no place to run except the 1 other door, hoping that there is only 1 shooter and no place to hide. Other than that, you would have to try and break out a window.

After that, I bought everyone who works behind our cipher lock doors a heavy stoneware coffee mug with the instruction to be chucking them when the shooter came through our door. So, pretty much everyone has at least 2 mugs to chuck. We also moved the ladies away from the entry doors and placed men there.

I had to get the ok from HR to bring in a couple of aluminum baseball bats to strategically place. They would only ok it if there was a glove and a gym bag associated with the bats. So there are now 2 gym bags with baseball gloves in them sitting next to the bats.

Don't be a sheep.

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

GTFO is good advice.

But it's kind of tough in a hospital.

What do you do with patients who are not ambulatory?

Just leave them?

Tell em, sorry, sucks for you but I'm outa here?

Tough situation for hospital staff.

Agreed. Tough decision but in these situations trying to rescue others adds you to the target list.

[island911]

Originally Posted by madmmac

...ok from HR to bring in a couple of aluminum baseball bats to strategically place. ...

Don't be a sheep.

I Like IT!

I'm thinking that even better than a bat would be your own "bomb disposal robot" (wink wink) carrying a little C4.

And that would keep the place a "Gun Free Zone"

Run it by HR...

[Por_sha911]

Whatever you do, don't call those big bad evil LEOs. Call Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson, Capt Zero...