First real paceline experience...F U N ! ! !

[berettafan]

Did the Seagull Century this weekend which is a major event. Supposedly 7-8k registered riders. not sure they all showed up thanks to forecasts but it was still a fair number of people. Rode with a much fitter friend (former D1 athlete, triathalon junky) and I think we rather compromised on the pace which was great for me. We had started out on the 100 mile route but rain started about 6 miles in so we cut over to the 66 mile route when it split off. As it turns out the rain eased up for most of the day. Still had well soaked roads throughout. Bikes were covered in dirt by the end but it was still fun.

Anyways the best part of the day turned out to be the 25 mile leg we rode with a group of 8 or ten who clearly ride together regularly. We came upon them right after leaving the first rest stop and after following at a slight distance asked if we could hop in. We were welcomed warmly and of offered to do our turns pulling as well.

So I've never done a real paceline. I've drafted behind my buddy a few times out of necessity but two or three guys is nothing compared to a real organized line. These guys (and girl) were two wide. After the pull the leaders would slide off to the either side of the lines and fall to the back while the next two started their pull together.

For a little perspective my average moving speed over the last few metrics I've done was 14.3 and 14.7. My last solo 30 was 15.3 iirc. Definitely getting stronger but if I see 18-20 on the flats solo it's classified as an interval not just strong riding!

Back to the paceline; the guy in charge says to my buddy '1 minute pulls at 18'. Ok, i'll just pretend I didn't hear that and ignore my HRM and speedo for as long as I can. SOOO glad I did! We ran the entire 25 miles (well, almost, one guy flatted about 1 mile out from the next stop so we pulled off for the fix) and it was the best experience I've ever had on a bike! keeping a foot off the tire in front of you at 18+ mph for 25 miles on soaked roads with another guy right on your side is some serious ****! One guy was clearly in charge and he made sure the group stayed tight particularly after passing a large group and slow turns. My gps was rotating through screens so I just paced the guy next to me on my pulls.

This was Saturday and i'm stilly giddy over the whole thing. Some thoughts on the experience:

-I have no idea who or what we passed while in the line. could've been topless women doing jumping jacks and I wouldn't have seen it. total focus on the guy in front of me and total trust that the guy behind me was doing the same.

-some tires kick up more water than others

-as an out of shape white guy it is a truly AWESOME feeling to have a group of athletic black guys (and girl!) say 'good pull' as you slide to the back. It's a silly metaphor but the work we all did together and the fun we had is what the world needs more of. The world tells us we are different but this group accepted my buddy and I with the only requirement being we pulled our weight (literally!). I felt honored to ride with such an organized and close knit bunch. the people we see on tv shooting and fighting and screaming at each other are the idiots of the world. fox and CNN didn't bother interviewing our group afterwards and splashing the story all over the news. sad because they surely don't miss a chance to catch the bad actors.

-having others doing the same thing you are doing is huge motivation. at one point I was starting to question my ability to hang and the guy next to me says to the group 'if you're feeling your legs you are NOT alone!'. Perfect timing and exactly what I needed.

-a leader in the group really helps and is great fun. at one point a guy in the group was sliding in and out of the line. I didn't know if he was with those folks so I let him in. then he'd slide back out or go three wide. then he'd slow while in front of me and we'd have to pick up 3 or 4 bike lengths to get back in. poor pacing and disruptive but i'm the FNG so I kept quiet. Well eventually the leader sees this and shouts 'if you're gonna get up in here then GET UP IN HERE!'. Really brought to light the seriousness of what we were doing.

-learning pacing solo is a fun part of cycling and it's even more fun in a group. so critical to stay on the wheel in front of you to avoid having to do extra work and possibly not being fresh for your pull.

-HRM showed my pulls and they were, for me considering the distance, a new level of achievement. Because we switched routes 8 miles in I don't have the full graph but the period we rode in the line is evident by the spikes during my pulls. looks like I did 4 or 5 pulls each of which hit the 160's. the very low dips before and after that section would be the rest stops (and the flat)

-I think I've ruled pop tarts out as a pre-ride food source. I felt a bit bloated after the first stop and my during ride food intake was same as previous long rides.

-legs gave up before the lungs. I've really gotten comfortable controlling the breathing which in turn helps moderate the HR. the last stretch we opted to let the paceline group go. I regretted that decision almost immediately but i'm not sure I could've done my part for the entire remaining distance.

-you cannot see what's ahead on the road surface when you're back in the line and thus hand signals and total attentiveness of the leaders is critical. one little mistake and we're having a $30,000 pile up with almost certainly a few broken bones and plenty of road rash. I wouldn't do pacelines on a regular basis as it's very risky but man it is fun.

-The experience of working hard as a group in a somewhat risky and challenging athletic endeavor is intoxicating.

[berettafan]

As usually happens when having fun I failed to get any good pics but here are a couple just to add some interest to the post.



bikes don't really look that bad in the pic but the hour I spent washing mine yesterday tells a different story!

[wayner]

Good stuff!!
I was wondering how you made out.

I don't know what it is but this year like you I've discovered a crertain euphoria from a group ride!!

[berettafan]

well I can tell you it's the only way i'm going that fast for that long!

and fast is undeniably fun!

while I feel stronger every ride I continue to be humbled at the effort and mental toughness required to do double centuries and multi day events. I think 100 miles is in reach for me now but the conditioning needed to go much past that is not, I think, a linear progression.

[greglepore]

Nuthin better than a good paceline. Our local group rides are unfortunately all "semi races" and ego strokes.

[jyl]

Pacelines are fun and fast but also risky.

You can't see road hazards and can't maneuver to avoid any you do see.

If you bounce well and can afford a new carbon bike, then go for it . . .

[look 171]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Nuthin better than a good paceline. Our local group rides are unfortunately all "semi races" and ego strokes.

Love it, but not the ego strokes.

[berettafan]

i'll surely be torn on future rides about looking to get into a line. it makes the time go by soooo fast and is an awesome workout BUT if it's a group you don't know then the danger is increased. there is a local group that rides part of my normal 20 mile route. typically 12+ people and they are MOVING. I found a few of them on strava and it looks like as a group they would put down about a 24mph average for a metric. they blew past my buddy and me on the last leg of the ride and the speed delta (we were maybe doing 15-16) was impressive. so no temptation to try to hang with them. maybe in a couple years with 40 less lbs and a lot more mileage.....

[Laneco]

A good paceline is simply a spectacular way to cover ground FAST. If you ever get the chance, jump in with a couple of tandems. Mother of God it's like getting pulled by a freight train.

angela

[look 171]

My only suggestion to hone pace line skills are that you keep doing it and ask questions or do what they tell you. Experience riders will ride along a single or double pace line sharing the work making it look really smooth. They point out the obstacles ahead on the road and never any sudden movements. Sudden movements are major cause of crashes in a group ride. People get tires or panic and they weave. You should be able to do a 30 mile ride sitting in without having to look ahead but sit in and look at the person's back or his wheel. I have done it, but don't recommend it because I always want to know what's up ahead so I take a look from time to time.

One minute pulls are too long if you ask me, if racing. I always suggest riders to come on through and do 5 pedal strokes and freewheel back and go again when their turn is up. Depending on the size of the group of course. This way, you are only in the wind for only a fed seconds.

Here are some of the don'ts in a pace line:

No sudden movement, it will take me 30' of riding to avoid a park car. This way I weave over ever slowly, almost riding straight.

Point out obstacles on the road. I almost never yell them out because it take the breath out of ya. a simple point of the hand so the rider knows to look out for something ahead on the road. I don't swing my arm or do this crazy pointing and yelling as I like to finish my ride or race conserving my energy (I save that and hit em' hard on the hills with the big ring)

Do not use your brakes. A slight nano second tap will slow you way down. I sometimes just stop pedaling just to have a little distance

If you need to move up front, do it on the outside and never through the middle of the group.

Protect your front wheel. Do not ride over or past the wheel in front. All it takes is for the rider up front to drift just a little and you will go down. Experience riders will ride straight but still, you must be careful. i broke my collarbone and three ribs that way a couple of years ago due to this idiot that can't ride straight

In a larger group with the pace up, try to stay mid pack or near top 10 or 12 place to avoid the rubber band effect. this is when the pace picks up and all the guys in back are trying to jump to catch that wheel, once they catch up, then they hit the brakes to slow up. They do this because they are tired. From the constant braking and going, it will kill ya.

In a long ride like that, there's always someone that's going to come up front to screw up the pace riding too fast, let em' go. They will fall back into place. Don't spend energy trying to reel em' back.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Laneco

A good paceline is simply a spectacular way to cover ground FAST. If you ever get the chance, jump in with a couple of tandems. Mother of God it's like getting pulled by a freight train.

angela

I hate tandems. Two people powering a bullet down the road while the rest of us are hanging on dear life. Wait until the road tilts upwards

[berettafan]

great stuff look, a good read indeed.

I felt the accordion/rubber band effect a bit particularly when the guy in front of me couldn't keep up. And I might've caused it on my first pull as I was so worried about doing my share I unknowingly accelerated to 20mph + and got called back. that was lack of experience. literally my first time ever pulling. after that I was very careful to pace the guy next to me who was in the group. I'll be ordering a hub mount speed sensor now too and changing my garmin screens to stay fixed on current speed.

it's funny how 99% of people can see a paceline and think nothing of it. the focus and care involved in going that fast, that close is remarkable. i'll never look at one the same again.

wish I had the gopro mounted for the ride. would've made some fun video!

[look 171]

Originally Posted by berettafan

i'll surely be torn on future rides about looking to get into a line. it makes the time go by soooo fast and is an awesome workout BUT if it's a group you don't know then the danger is increased. there is a local group that rides part of my normal 20 mile route. typically 12+ people and they are MOVING. I found a few of them on strava and it looks like as a group they would put down about a 24mph average for a metric. they blew past my buddy and me on the last leg of the ride and the speed delta (we were maybe doing 15-16) was impressive. so no temptation to try to hang with them. maybe in a couple years with 40 less lbs and a lot more mileage.....

May I suggest getting the basic down first. I don't know how many miles you have under your belt or how long you have been riding?

You need base miles. Don't worry about the speed, it will come before you know it. Go out and make it a point to keep riding long steady distance or LSD. I know we have to work and deal with family and all that good stuff that ruined our lives so do as long as you can. Hands up on top or the brake hoods and bang out the miles. Keep spinning at 90-110 revs. This builds form and makes you smooth so less energy is used during those fast pace line rides. You do that for a few months through the winter or the next three to four months, I guarantee you will fly in the next group ride. what gears are you riding? 34x50? Small hills or not, just keep the spin up and do not change gears. I recommend you stick to a 65" -66" gear. After that, you start to bang out the larger gears when you are sick of spinning that little thing. By then your body should be used to spinning at a certain rpm your legs will automatic spin the largest get possible at that speed effortlessly. That's how they go so fast. They aren't breathing at that speed and can hold a conversation while your tongue is hanging out trying to catch a breath. Do intervals to build speed or just go and ride in those pace lines. Soon enough you will be up front stirring up the doggie poo. they will yell at you to slow down. That's when you know you can move up to the faster group. Too much fun, enjoy it. Oh, LSD will burn all your weight off. Its all about discipline. LSD teaches you that. I used to be able to burn off 5 lbs of winter fat off in a month. I was 25 then. Sound like you are having a great time.

[jhynesrockmtn]

Sounds like you are enjoying this whole process. Group riding is a great workout and also has become a great social outlet for me. Most rides end with a pint!

I remember several years back riding the second half of the MS 150 out of La Conner WA. Me and one other guy were together on a tough 75 mile day. The last 20 miles were into a very strong wind, blowing consistently at 25mph or so. We traded spots every 2 minutes. At some point some other riders hooked up. Didn't ask but we didn't shush them away either. The thing is none of them would pull so we just kept swapping spots of front. As we crossed the finish line into town, there were like 20 riders behind us. I didn't realize the line had gotten that big. Now I was a bit pissed. They were all very appreciative, slapping our backs, etc. I wanted to slap em.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

Sounds like you are enjoying this whole process. Group riding is a great workout and also has become a great social outlet for me. Most rides end with a pint!

I remember several years back riding the second half of the MS 150 out of La Conner WA. Me and one other guy were together on a tough 75 mile day. The last 20 miles were into a very strong wind, blowing consistently at 25mph or so. We traded spots every 2 minutes. At some point some other riders hooked up. Didn't ask but we didn't shush them away either. The thing is none of them would pull so we just kept swapping spots of front. As we crossed the finish line into town, there were like 20 riders behind us. I didn't realize the line had gotten that big. Now I was a bit pissed. They were all very appreciative, slapping our backs, etc. I wanted to slap em.

Don't get piss, you got a great workout out of it. When I don't feel like getting beat up by the big kids, I'll do the ride with the slower group. I ride up front and pull them for as long as I can until I blow up and go home. Many of the beginning or slower rider will be happy to sit in and go for the ride. Some are trying really hard just hanging onto the pace. This is how they get stronger. Last saturday, i got dropped early and was caught by a smaller group of about 8 guys. I just stayed up front and pull them for about 8 miles tapping out a steady pace (about 22mph mostly flat until the hills). I was spent. After that, a couple of them came up and did their short 15 second turns. I get a better workout then sitting in. When I seat in, there's really no hard effort unless they are hauling ass. I don't have a computer, so I ride by feel. Better for me that way because I will go until I feel pain.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by berettafan

...I think 100 miles is in reach for me now but the conditioning needed to go much past that is not, I think, a linear progression.

From what I've learned fro everyone here at pelican this year as they coached me, with this seasons experience under my belt, you can probably now do 100 confidently

It was that 1:00 to 2:09 that killed you. When it is time to do a 100 stay out of that range and you'll be fine I'll bet

( of course more training means you can stay out of that hr range AND keep pace

[look 171]

Originally Posted by berettafan

great stuff look, a good read indeed.

I felt the accordion/rubber band effect a bit particularly when the guy in front of me couldn't keep up. And I might've caused it on my first pull as I was so worried about doing my share I unknowingly accelerated to 20mph + and got called back. that was lack of experience. literally my first time ever pulling. after that I was very careful to pace the guy next to me who was in the group. I'll be ordering a hub mount speed sensor now too and changing my garmin screens to stay fixed on current speed.

it's funny how 99% of people can see a paceline and think nothing of it. the focus and care involved in going that fast, that close is remarkable. i'll never look at one the same again.

wish I had the gopro mounted for the ride. would've made some fun video!

That's because your 20mph killed them (that's ok). A rookie mistake pulling too hard disrupting the pace. Just ride on through and do your 5-10 pedal stokes an pull out. some people just come on through with 2-3 pedal strokes. That's ok too. Once you get used to spinning at a certain rpm, you legs will tell you if you picked up the pace or not. While a computer is great for that, but you still need to learn how to do it without it so you are smooth. You don't ever want to come off a pace line feeling tired ( i know its easier said then done as we all are trying to like ourselves). On a larger group of 7 or 8 riders, I go right back in line at about the 4thor 5 place. I don't like to be in the back. There's where stuff happened especially with riders who are inexperienced.

If you are going to jack up the speed, just make sure you don't sit up (or just stop pedaling) after your pull. If you need to pick up the pace and control that, go up front and slowly pick it up in a 1/4 mile distance. Most people will just be happy to sit there and deal with the increase pace. If you jack rabbit that, most will just sit there and never react. The big boys will never allow that to happen. They will chase you down.

[greglepore]

Good advice. The think I hate most is the guy who does a hero long pull at a pace higher than the group, and I'm second wheel. Its like I'm doing a double pull.

30 sec max, flick the elbow so the guy behind knows. If you have a power meter, great, go maybe 20 watts higher than when you were second wheel. If you up the pace at all, do it smooth, but really you just want to pull thru and not disrupt the rhythm of the group.

I don't like guys that take too much time away from two hands on the bars to point out hazards. They hit stuff one handed and take down 4 or five guys.

Learn this if nothing else-if you touch your front wheel, steer INTO the touch, not away. You'll stay upright, steer away you go down 95% of the time.

And watch the back or around the rider in front, don't fixate on his wheel.

I do the Ttown derby once in a while, bunch of pro trackies and cat 1-2 guys, 25 mph paceline for 20 miles out, then an all out race back. I ride it just for the smooth ride out, and often just turn off after as I can't quite hang with guys like Nothstein.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Good advice. The think I hate most is the guy who does a hero long pull at a pace higher than the group, and I'm second wheel. Its like I'm doing a double pull.

30 sec max, flick the elbow so the guy behind knows. If you have a power meter, great, go maybe 20 watts higher than when you were second wheel. If you up the pace at all, do it smooth, but really you just want to pull thru and not disrupt the rhythm of the group.

I don't like guys that take too much time away from two hands on the bars to point out hazards. They hit stuff one handed and take down 4 or five guys.

Learn this if nothing else-if you touch your front wheel, steer INTO the touch, not away. You'll stay upright, steer away you go down 95% of the time.

And watch the back or around the rider in front, don't fixate on his wheel.

I do the Ttown derby once in a while, bunch of pro trackies and cat 1-2 guys, 25 mph paceline for 20 miles out, then an all out race back. I ride it just for the smooth ride out, and often just turn off after as I can't quite hang with guys like Nothstein.

The trick is to show the beginning riders that without getting into it with them. Too much reading on the net and they get all twisted out of whack screaming back at ya. I can't stand the whole hand motion waving, not once but several times. We wee you stop already and pay attention to the road ahead of ya. I don't really try anymore with some of them. they are young and strong, but have no idea what they are doing. Guy comes out with a trip bike, I make sure I am in front of him. I hate the guys who come front at a light as they roll out, sprint back up to pace and they sit up and not move over. Everyone hits the brakes. Thank goodness this rarely happened in the faster group rides. What's Marty Nothstein like on the road? A lot of those big track riders really hurt with long steady speed especially on the rolling hills. We used to have Thurlow Rogers come out and rip our legs off. Fun times as we managed to finish the whole ride without dropped was a great day.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by look 171

The trick is to show the beginning riders that without getting into it with them. Too much reading on the net and they get all twisted out of whack screaming back at ya. I can't stand the whole hand motion waving, not once but several times. We wee you stop already and pay attention to the road ahead of ya. I don't really try anymore with some of them. they are young and strong, but have no idea what they are doing. Guy comes out with a trip bike, I make sure I am in front of him. I hate the guys who come front at a light as they roll out, sprint back up to pace and they sit up and not move over. Everyone hits the brakes. Thank goodness this rarely happened in the faster group rides. What's Marty Nothstein like on the road? A lot of those big track riders really hurt with long steady speed especially on the rolling hills. We used to have Thurlow Rogers come out and rip our legs off. Fun times as we managed to finish the whole ride without dropped was a great day.

Marty finished his career with Navigators as a road/NRC guy so over a 40 mi ride he's capable. He 'll crush you in the sprint, at least a few years ago. Now that he's a politician he's a little slower.


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