Yawn - Another Pit Bull Thread
 

One of my old hunting partners is having trouble with a pit bull in his neighborhood. He lives in a newly developed "nice" part of town that, unfortunately, borders a not so nice part of town. One of his "neighbors" from the "other side of the tracks" lets his un-neutered male just run loose. It's about three to four years old, in the prime of its life, and clearly sowing his wild oats and establishing his territory. He is very aggressive towards other animals (that are fenced in their own yards) and, unfortunately, people (who are not fenced in their own yards). It's attacked my buddy three times now. He has been successful in fending it off so far, with everything from a shovel to a 10 pound maul, but he's gotten tired of having to be on alert for this thing every time he goes outside.

There is a school bus stop right in front of his house. He has not seen the dog around when the kids are waiting in the morning, nor when they get home in the afternoon. He has now taken to watching from his front porch, with a rifle just out of sight but within easy reach.

He is going to kill this dog. He has said as much, and I've known him long enough to believe him. He has spoken with its meth head owners on several occasions, and has made it clear that since they have not been listening, have done nothing to keep their dog from wandering, that he is now down to killing it the very next time he sees it out. They don't know him well enough to believe him...

The police have been out not only when he calls, but when neighbors have called as well. He made it clear to the last officer who came out that he will kill the dog the very next time he sees it loose. Got no real response from the officer. Nothing changes.

This dog is an imminent threat; it would be a shame to wait until someone got hurt, like one of the school children. My buddy won't. He grew up in old school rural America, where there remain hard and fast rules for such things. He gave the owners a couple of chances. He gave the authorities a couple of chances. He was clear in his expectations, and his intent if those were not met. I just spoke with him this afternoon. Hell, I bet it's dead already.

Crossbow, or subsonic .22 to the head.

Sadly, it's probably the best outcome. Pit bulls are fashion accessories for imbeciles all too often.

This gets pretty surreal. We are both avid hunters, riflemen, and hand loaders. Of course the discussion turned to what to use. This is a suburban setting with plenty of people and houses. We agreed a small caliber, high velocity varmint rifle would be best. Bullets from things like a .22-250, .220 Swift, or even a properly loaded .223 do not exit, thereby reducing risk. Of course he will wait for a safe backstop as well. I suggested one of his suppressed AR-15's (yes, even though he's a "black rifle" guy at times, we remain good friends). He prefers "loud and proud" - he is absolutely not going to even try to hide anything. It will be one of his .22-250's or something. He said he has already told the owner something like "when you hear it, it will be your dog..."

Discharging a firearm in an urban setting and killing someone's dog is legally perilous. Big time. The fact that there is a history with law enforcement might dissipate some of the criminal repercussions, but there is nothing to prevent these dope heads from dragging him into a civil crap show. Not saying not to do it, but 'loud and proud' is a good way drop $50k in legal fees. .22 to the head will kill a dog just fine.

Wouldn't a phone call to animal control be simpler?

In a way, it's really too bad things have come to this.

I've heard of vicious pit bulls, but have never "met" one in person. Every pit bull I've ever run across (even those represented to be "vicious") have been nice dogs. Some were more protective of their territory than others, but none have displayed behavior that I would call dangerous. I don't doubt they are out there. It's a shame that this dog has been treated/raised/trained so badly as to be a threat.

It seems strange that with the authorities involved that animal control has not been involved yet. Seems like plenty of evidence to do so.

1). Video tape repeat aggression.
2). Sending registered letter to the city and to animal control (for dog behavior evaluation) would be a good step.

It's the law.
Three attacks is two many.
He has already stated his opinions to the law.
He might be saving a child's life.

These also might protect him legally in the future, should another incident occur.

Not just for Coyotes

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1480730710.jpg

A friend of mine was walking her dog when she was attacked by a pit bull, almost tore the dog foot off and she almost lost her thumb. Fortunately two strangers came to her rescue, one lady opened her car and told her to throw the dog in the car while one guy came out of his house and pulled the attaching dogs off.

I don't blame the dogs but the bad owners... my neighbor has a very sweet PB.

Like P-O-P said unfortunately wanna be badazzes buy them as a fashion accessory and train them to be mean so they can live vicariously through the dog.

Kind of like the ladies who buy tiny dogs and carry them in their purses.

Anyone here ever resuscitate the 6 year old result of a "but he's harmless, never been aggressive to anyone in the family, I don't know what set him off" dog attack?

No?

It needs to be gone. "Humanely' via animal control, or definitively via your .22.
Alternatively, brush up on your trauma first-aid, you'll be needing it soon.

Don't you have animal control in your county? A call to animal control here and the dog gets picked up.
I love pit bulls. Not so fond of some of their owners. They are a fashion accessory to some people, and they are among the most neglected and abused breeds.

Sounds justified to me. There is ZERO justification for an aggressive dog, and I have no time for people that apologize for them.

Around here, a call to 911 for an aggressive dog is a call to "animal control". There are only a handful of "dog catchers", however, so most of the time a regular cop shows up. And yes, this dog has been picked up. And returned.

At this point, my buddy sees this as kind of "time pressured". Waiting to jump through all of the legal hoops with which we have encumbered ourselves is not seen, by him, to be an option. Seeing a kid mauled or killed at the bus stop while "action is pending" is not something he will wait to see.

And yes, the whole discharge of a firearm, cruelty to animals, etc. came up in our conversation. I implored him to "be careful" and to "think this through". He is an intelligent, thoughtful man. He would also never forgive himself if he waited, and "something happened...".

He is not an "in your face" kind of guy, but he will very much do what he does out in the open, and take full responsibility for the outcome. No sneaking around. If he does kill the dog, and the owner doesn't come running at the gunshot, he will call 911 - animal control - to come and get the carcass off of his lawn. And he will certainly tell them "hell yes, I shot the damn thing". Let the chips fall where they may...

I don't understand this part.
Washington state police have a rep for shootings and gub'ment.
I hope it all works out for the best.

Does your buddy have a fenced back yard- or a neighbor with one? Perhaps the dog would possibly "chase" him into such a yard -and he would then be faced with having to defend himself against the aggressive dog.

If he shoots the dog he's going to be in a world of hurt.

Firearm discharge in a populated area near someone else? $50k to *start* your defense.

If he's already been attacked, he should have called the cops right after. If he didn't, well... Someones going to suffer for it.

Sounds like it's time to make this an issue with the powers that be....

The truly sad part of all this is the amount of stupid people who buy pitbull puppies for their kids as pets, and for one reason or another, can't handle the dog, or are afraid of it. MOST of the dogs in the county dog pounds/shelters are some form of pit/mix and too unstable to be adopted.

I also agree with the "wanna be badasses" who buy a tough dog to intimidate/impress other people, and train them to be mean.

I would have no problem "popping" this dog if I was it in my yard. I think an unceremonious, unmarked grave would make me smile every time I walked out into the yard and didn't fear for my safety.

Don't shoot the dog unless you know you can absolutely get away with it. Ie, attacked.
An old timer in a small northern az town was arrested for shooting a coon from the top of his trash can... Neighbors reported it...

I would trap, and take to the local shelter. Chances are the Neanderthal won't get it back, especially if the dog shows aggressive behavior...

I know it is Friday night and many of you are probably relaxing with an adult beverage but seems like many of you are not reading Jeff's posts.

Jeff is not proposing to shoot the dog his friend is.
His friend has called the police/animal control.
The offending dog has been taken away and returned.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled mayhem.

There's some asshats around the corner from me that are backyard breeders. Everyone now and then, one of them gets loose and this idiot will be running down the street after it, yelling "Get the fook back here, NOW!" - yeah, when has that ever worked? One of their dogs got through their back fence and killed a couple of the neighbor's pet rabbits; when the neighbor went 'round to their house, they wouldn't even come to the door.

I don't have much love for pit bulls, even less for their owners.

The local SPCA is full of of pit bulls - sorry: American Staffordshire Terriers; that or "Staffy" is what they label them, to avoid the negative connotation.

I understand your friend's perspective. But if I were going to do something on the borderline of legality (like killing someone else's dog with a firearm on public property) I sure as heck wouldn't be "loud and proud" about it. Just do it and be done with it. The fewer people who know, the better. I'd also check to see if any of the immediate neighbors have security cams set up in the fronts of their houses. The less evidence there is, the better.

Last time I looked at an animal shelter the dog cages were half full of PB's and maybe one quarter Chihuahua.

In a shames maneuver to get my wife to watch TV with me I turned on the Westminster dog show and was half amused to see a American Staffordshire Terrier on display.

I would add I raised a doberman the was the sweetest dog on the earth... but when I would walk her people would act nervous.

Thank you.

It's clear that at least a few of you either did not read, or cannot understand what I have already posted. Please go back and re-read before posting again. I've been very careful in trying to explain this situation as clearly as possible.

One "point" I would like to specifically address: I have personally discharged a firearm in a populated area (my own neighborhood) on at least two occasions. "$50k to *start* your defense" is pure uninformed bull *****. That is speaking from personal, first hand experience. Are you?

A limited viewpoint but:
I go to the dog park regularly.
There are a few purebred pits there who are sweethearts.
I give 'em face kisses and butt scratches and throw toys the same.
There are also some mixes who are still muscle, a bit stiff, but still self-restrained who mostly ignore other dogs, show belly, or turn tail with yelping instead of biting.
Some others are good at running and wrassling.
Good owners..

In a different setting, however, I have little doubt the situation would be different.
I would respond different.

I disagree to a point. Adopting any dog right out of the pound can be a crap shoot. You have to be ready to deal with a dog's emotional trauma no matter what the breed. I am part of the Pit Bull Rescue for our area (The Pit Crew) and we find that most of the dogs can be rehabbed. Even badly abused dogs have a capacity to trust again with proper care. I've seen some miracles in that regard.

I think it depends on where you are when you pull the trigger. You shoot a dog that may not have any official reports of aggression and it might just cost you, especially if the guy sitting at the other table looks particularly pitiful. Your friend being prepared to stop a threat is fine and commendable, but perhaps could be more circumspect.

TR had it right. Speak softly and carry a big stick. How would a 9 do against a 100 pound dog?

Judge Judy(yes I watch some tv...) says that it is okay to do whatever you have to to counteract an attacking dog. Using a firearm in a populated area is not too smart.

My wife and I do a lot of walking and I find that whenever a dog takes a run at me I start running towards it and it usually backs off. Attacking dogs can take all forms from pit bulls to chiuauas(spelling?). Animal control is the answer. I have reported several dogs that have taken a run at me and the perps have been prosecuted. The only thing that owners' of loose dogs understand is if it goes to court and costs them money.

Many of these loose dogs have not been trained. Their wild nature is indicative of their owners' nature. Take care out there.

I vote the dog's humans get shot instead of the dog.

Now that would be a justified shooting.....

Hey Jeff...can that .22-250 ammo be used in a regular .22 rifle...similar to .22LR ammo?

I'm pretty sure that dog came after your friend just before he shot it.

Very sure.

Best idea...the live trap. That way, no shooting. Lots of water places up there, yes?

Rope tied to trap for retrieval...toss in water, wait 10-15 minutes.

Nice & quiet...they'll just wonder where Fido went.

I couldn't agree more. Shoot some poor Golden Retriever fetching a tennis ball for his eight year old master, and you will quite rightfully pay. Hopefully right up to and including jail time - "full weight of the law" and all of that. As I've explained, however, this ain't like that...

This whole situation just sucks. It's a no-win, no matter what happens. This dog clearly has to die, no way around that. He has been allowed to do as he pleases, with no training or discipline, and the full qualities of the breed's purposeful breeding are all too apparent in his behavior. He is a vicious animal, and too far down that road to ever "turn" him.

And yes, Baz, I agree - someone needs to shoot the owners as well. They are very much a drain on society, will never contribute a damn thing but trouble, and will continue to make stupid decisions that hurt others. If this dog is killed, they will likely just get another.

I'm still trying to talk my buddy out of this. I've tried to tell him that he does not want to be the object of these kinds of peoples' attention. They are stupid and unpredictable, and have way too much time on their hands. Better to let the authorities handle it.

Problem is, unless it hurts someone, he will continue to get it back from the pound. Or, if they won't let him have it back, being that it never hurt anyone, they might let some poor unsuspecting family adopt it. Only if it hurts, or God forbid, kills someone, will the authorities have the option of destroying it. Who really wants to wait for that?

Like you I think if he kills the dog "with pride" - the negative attention from the neighbor will far surpass anything annoying the dog did.

Pissing contests always end with two people covered in piss.

Tonight, for everyone's entertainment I offer a recent video of the dogs up the street chasing me on a dirt road home.

Really can't resist!!!!
I am only posting this (laughingly) because I know how much Jeff LOVES cyclists.This video (shaky) is gold because it involves a bike AND it involves a the same types of dogs being discussed- unsupervised dogs which reek havoc. I mean, who do you root for in this scenerio??!?!?:D:D:D - no hard feelings for anyone!

I think the dog on the right is a pit bull mix. The owners live in a trailer, the dogs are left outside all year, and are not under restraint. The children (who I have met) will eagerly tell you their dog bites all passerby's (and especially bikers)!!!! HA!!!!!

Again- who do you root for? (I can't stop laughing)

Sorry the video is a little shaky. I am using this as leverage with my wife to get a go pro for christmas. I am also going pretty slow. What makes the chase interesting is the dogs position themselves on a blind curve in deep gravel. The curve is also sharp- which slows me down to the point where they have a chance. The traction is sooo bad, there is even some apex carving on corners at that slow speed.

Listen to the dog on the right. It about had my foot. Although the video doesn't seem like it, he is on my 6 until the van on the left.

A couple of more factoids- This dirt road was the road used by Thomas Jefferson when he came west of charlottesville to plan the location of the University of Virginia.

As for serious dog stuff. 1. This county does not have a leash law. It does require dogs to be under control. In the cases where I have called animal control, they have not wanted to come out, and requested I deal with the owners directly.
hmmm....

2. I know a person who did shoot a dog about 25 years ago in a rural setting. He WAS taken to court by the dog owners. In the end, the judge did rule in his favor, claiming to his neighbor "you should have locked up your dogs..." The judge WAS sympathetic to the plaintiff. and a dog lover, but kept repeating "should've locked up your dogs"- point being- it wasn't a TKO for defense, there were, even 25 years ago in a rural setting, a lot of emotion at play.
3. I like the idea of "walking small/carry big stick" I have been reading this thread and wondering if in this day of internet useage, if this thread was somehow discovered/entered into evidence, how it would affect the trial. I understand it is not Jeff's problem, it is his friend's, but I wonder how self defense would be argued if there were several pages of premeditation going into it. Again- not disagreeing with either side, just thinking taking a second breather might be a good idea before ending up in some jerry springer situation.

4. Trash is trash. Because I live in a very rural area, with plenty of dogs left off leash who aren't used to anything other than a deer or bear, I have been chased many times. I also carry bear spray on my bike. I remember once a dog ran from his house, and chased me down the street. I maced it. The owner, was furious. He came at me on foot and tried to kick my ass. I was able to outrun him, but about had to mace him. He was unable to think outside of his love for his pet. Never mind that I was on a public road. Never mind he is legally obligated to control his dog- in his mind, I was at fault for attacking his beloved pet. The rational "let's look at both sides of the story" wasn't going on in his brain. The point is this- people love their pets, and can become irrational. Also- trash is trash, but an owner letting his dog's run at large is not thinking like we do. I'm not condoning their behavior, but share that with your friend. Use restraint and time to your advantage to formulate a perfect response with t's crossed and i's dotted ten times over. Documentation. Documentation. Documentation.

With this in mind (in my own silly world), I have learned to not get to worked up over this stuff. Believe me, I used to!:D

And now for the chase - take some advil for the shakyness- Enjoy!!!! :D:D:D

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/vYZUuAaUOtA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I have no trouble at all with dogs being off leash. We have a few families in our quiet little dead end neighborhood that have young children and dogs. What a great combination - nothing like kids with a dog to play and pal around with. They are a riot to watch when they are out in their front yards and the street; a dozen or more kids and several big dopey dogs. Pure Americana.

Yes, every now and then one of them does something annoying, like crapping in my front yard (one of the dogs, not the kids). I just shovel it up and throw it in my doggie crap composter along with my own dog's. Who, by the way, lives in my back yard, behind a very secure fence. The neighborhood kids are all on notice, by the way, that they can let her out to join the fray any time they like. They are all good friends with "Katie the Wonder Dog" (we wonder what she's good for...), the world's youngest 13 year old Golden Retriever.

Sigh... my poor buddy's situation is so different. When this dog eventually does something bad, it likely won't be merely annoying. It's likely to be pretty darn harmful and traumatic to his poor victim. He's just the wrong kind of dog with the wrong kind of temperament. There have been Labs and whatnot running around my buddy's neighborhood, playing with the kids and just generally hanging out just like in my neighborhood. No one cares about any of that, least of all my buddy. This dog is very different, though. It's not if, it's when it hurts someone. Just sucks...

Just out of curiosity- (just throwing out ideas) does your friend have (or know of) any other neighbor's who are also concerned about the situation? Would there be a way to get everyone together to coordinate complaints to animal control to maximize the point "this is a problem- it's a matter of when, not if... and if you don't get this taken care of... you as animal control heard it from 3,5,10... whatever.. neighbors 100x times and failed to act." If one person complains about a dog, I can see animal control viewing that (complainer) as a nuisance, but if a multiple neighbor officially complain, repeatedly, animal control might feel a little more compelled from a liability standpoint to put some heat on the situation as not to appear they weren't "unsympathetic" to the threat at hand, especially if something does happen.
just thoughts-perhaps futile- trying to keep your friend out of "stone phiilips/ canine Bernhard Goetz" type situations.


re-reading initial post- it looks like this has been done to certain extent.- perhaps repeating it , and in unison to authorities, as well as asking official protocol from authorities as to how to handle these situations when they arise...

i.e....." I have asked you to help. Other neighbors have complained. Kids are let off bus.. one gets attacked.. what should I do? "Put the heat on the authorities. Still, get other neighbors on board.

Even if futile, to gain official documentation as to the leadup of events.Yes, judge, this is how is happened. On date such and such, I did x. On date such and such, I did y. On date such and such I did z. Animal control officer #123 mumbled nothing and said nothing when asked for specifics.

LOL! Every experienced dog owner knows if you want your dog to follow you, you run away from it. It thinks you're playing a game and it needs to chase you. That is, unless you've abused it -in that case you've lost control.

I'll post one more silly pic and be gone.


I'm fortunate enough to live in a state where one one party has to consent to recording a message. I utilize this fancy high tech device in every conversation I have with insurance companies/ etc, or any other important dialogue occurs. I document every high tech cassette tape with labels as to what was said, and when, regarding what.

If I were discussing anything with the authorities, I would have this puppy rolling. It seems like overkill, but in regards to insurance- auto/medical. etc.... having the conversation in real time has made a difference when "what was said will happen" by party x didn't actually happen 6 mo.- one year+ later.

If I were potentially going up against a government authority with either their hands tied or apathetic, I prefer my maxell quality cassettes!:D This is where dotting i's and crossing t's comes into play.

(just trying to help your friend)

Enjoy! :)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1480818547.JPG

Holy crap!! A little shaky? Wow, I was expecting fairly shaky, but what I witnessed was on a wholely different level. Wow. hahahahah