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Yeah, I get all that. The point I was making, that you seem to have missed, was that the personality characteristics of a breed are less consistent than most people claim. In other words, people tend to generalize more than they should. I find this more common in people that have never had any firsthand experience with a breed.
It's no different than many other subjects. Few people know a subject very deeply, so they repeat what they hear, or read, from other people that don't know much more than they do. Nothing new, not likely to change. JR |
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Take your very best fetching Pit Bull to a field trial, java, and get back with us on how you do. Take the meanest Golden Retriever in the neighborhood to a dog fighting ring and let us know how that works out.
I have a great deal of experience with dogs and dog training. I played the competitive field trial game for over 20 years as a part of my long term addiction to hunting and everything surrounding hunting (I'm better now, but that's a different story...). I got a significant head start by hiring a very successful local trainer on my first competitive dog, but managed to train the next few successfully on my own. I can say unequivocally that breeding cannot be overstated. Individuals will always display unique personality traits, but none will overcome their breeding. I saw that time and time again with the dogs from the better breeders, not the better trainers, dominating the game. An average trainer can take a top dog and win - I did. A top trainer can take an average dog and never stand a chance. I saw that play out in the form of top trainers with clients' dogs - many had to eventually tell the client to simply get another dog, 'cause this one ain't got "it"... |
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Now, back to dogs. Most dogs are not well-trained and most owners know next to nothing about dog behavior and thinking. Bad things can happen when you put a poorly trained or poorly socialized dog into a situation where the owner is unable to foresee a potential problem. You can blame the dog, when something goes wrong. Or you can blame the owner. In the case of the dog incident that started this thread, the problem seems to have started with the owner. The other point I originally made is that about 12,000 dog bites occur every day. We heard about only one, that being (of course) the one that involved the dreaded pitbull. Blame the media for this selective narrative. It's what they do. JR |
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:D JR |
^^^ Jeff has the right answer, My first golden was a natural hunter, whom I got from one of the best breeders in the country. My next golden was a great dog, but had no interest in hunting. I have been attacked by two pit bulls, I have no need for them at all! You can't have a lion without a permit of some kind, pit bulls should be no different.
My peta loving neighbor got one as a puppy, loved it more than her kids. While walking it in the winter she fell and scared the dog, it almost killed her! Her husband had to smash it's head in with a 2 by 4 to get it to let go! I'm sorry but they are just too dangerous to be allowed any longer, and the sooner we get rid of them, the better. |
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It makes me FEEL better to live in an imaginary world. |
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As far as 12,000 dog bites annually, given the above I think its reasonable that we not hear about every one, since most are just a single bite. We hear about the pit bull incidents because those are often fatal. I get it though, you have the good "996", which is great, but just don't try and convince everyone else that they won't have any issues if they get one too. |
Dogs give off all sorts of warnings before they bite. If you have to wait until you get a "warning bite' before you have figured out that a dog is stressed, you have no business being near a dog. Have a look at this picture and tell me what you see:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483557149.jpg |
My experience with dogs tells me the behavior, demeanor and emotiveness of the dog's master has enormous influence over the dog, so much so that often the dog will naturally submit to his master without question or hesitation.
The dog, assuming good socialization as a pup and considering the inherent variables of breed, can become inseparable from its master in spirit and in its relationship with the world. That submission is innate and I think the most mysterious and indearing thing about dogs. Like many, I grew up with a lab. Pick o' the litter. That dog learned to tell us what he wanted us to do. Most times when he screwed up like bounding up the school bus stairs one morning and plopping himself on my lap to my utter embarrassment, to slowly ever so slowly circling in the center of the living room prior to taking a massive dump of the remains of who knew what, was our fault. Now, as I am older and hopefully a little wiser, I am searching for a dog that will make my life and his life better. A working dog; a companion, a guardian, an assistant and a friend. An Aussie Cattle dog or very small German Sheperd are the two finalists. |
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do you have a death wish? ;) Did i mention that my little dog bit me once? He was totally blind and was sleeping on the couch one morning. I was getting ready to go to work and came down the hall and sat next to him to put my socks and shoes on. After that I leaned over to pet him and give him a kiss on the head good by. Ever heard the expression "let sleeping dogs lie"? It means, don't wake up dogs unexpectedly because you don't know how they might react. Yep, my dog did not realize it was me when he was woken suddenly, he didn't realize where he was or if it was safe, and he snapped at me and got my lip. It was sore all day! if he had been a pit bull i'd probably be on my 20th cosmetic surgery by now to put my face back together, if I survived at all. THAT is the point. All dogs can bite. SOME breeds can bite hard. Real hard. And they don't let go. The rip and tear and fight and are very, very strong. They can easily rip flesh from bone. Did you know that some bird dogs are classified as "soft mouthed dogs"? Retrievers are BRED to have soft bites so that they don't crush birds when they retrieve them. They could bite humans, no doubt. But chances are they'd end up drowning them in drool before they did any other harm. Quote:
SHOW OF HANDS .... how many people out there have been mauled by a golden retriever? How many use a pit bull terrier as a hunting retriever and if so, have you ever gotten anything back besides a mouth full of feathers? |
As a young homesteader in Northern Michigan, I chose to become master to a toy Manchester Terrier.
Being short-haired and thinnish, he had trouble with semi-arctic air. He did wear a sweater and would happily bring it when commanded. I never ever had a problem with critters or hiked alone or slept alone or feared for my safety in his presence. |
The first time ever I saw my father cry in grief and remorse (maybe the only time) was when he stepped on his beloved pocket poodle and killed it instantly.
That dog was snuggled under the comforter on the floor when my father jumped up to answer the phone. |
I won't let my kids near a pitbull even if they are on a leash. Perhaps I am dog racist, er speciesist maybe.
I had a great Pyrenees growing up and he was tremendously understanding and tolerant of kids. Ive seen parents out and About I would trust less with kids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYhvP_70_sg |
Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 31, 2014
Merritt Clifton, editor of Animals 24-7 By compiling U.S. and Canadian press accounts between 1982 and 2014, Merritt Clifton, editor of Animals 24-7, shows the dog breeds most responsible for disfiguring injuries and deaths.1 Study highlights The combination of molosser breeds, including pit bulls, rottweilers, presa canarios, cane corsos, mastiffs, dogo argentinos, fila brasieros, sharpeis, boxers, and their mixes, inflict: 86% of attacks that induce bodily harm 81% of attacks to children 89% of attack to adults 76% of attacks that result in fatalities 86% that result in maiming Embody 9.2%+ of the total dog population Discussion notes: Even if the pit bull category was "split four ways," attacks by pit bulls and their closest relatives would still outnumber attacks by any other dog breed. Pit bulls are noteworthy for attacking adults almost as frequently as children. This is a very rare pattern, only seen elsewhere in the bullmastiff/presa canario line. If a pit bull or rottweiler has a bad moment, instead of a person being bitten, often a person is maimed for life or killed. This has created off-the-chart actuarial risk. 1982-2014 chart http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1483558739.jpg Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 31, 2014, by Merritt Clifton, Animals 24-7, December 31, 2014. Dog Attack Deaths and Maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to December 31, 2014 - By Merritt Clifton - DogsBite.org |
I do have a faded photo of my toddler sister riding the back of an enormous jet-black Great Dane the day after it showed up on our porch.
The aforementioned lab cowered in mortal fear, shivering constantly from the moment the thing mysteriously appeared until the guy who owned it saw it chained to our tree in front and took it home muttering about what a goddamn waste of dog it was guarding his junkyard. |
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JR |
Reading dog behavior is one thing. Controlling it a whole 'nother thread.
Skinnerian Psychology (i.e., operant conditioning) is what the doctoral candidate at MSU wanted me to write my master's thesis at MSU about. He mighta been on to something cuz when I went home to the farm, I trained my mom and dad's farm dog mutt to roll-over and walk on his hind legs in about 20 minutes. |
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That look says "I trust you not to let the little one hurt me" |
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Shame on you Sammy producing data to backup your stance! |
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