Home AC question

masraum · 02-07-2017, 03:35 PM

The AC has stopped working in the kids' home. A guy came out and said there is 1 or maybe 2 leaks in the coils in the outdoor unit. He said that he would check to see if it was under warranty, but I'm not expecting that. He then said that he could fix/replace the coils outside for $2k, but it didn't make any sense to do that when they could get a new unit for $2500. What they currently have is a Goodman, my guess is that it's a 3-4 ton unit. That doesn't sound that crazy to me.

Then the guy said that if he replaced the outdoor unit, and the new unit wasn't compatible with the indoor unit, that he might have to replace both and that would run $5600. I've had both an indoor unit and an outdoor unit replaced on a home at two separate times. I don't think together the cost was that high, and I've never heard that the indoor and outdoor units could be incompatible.

They have a pretty run of the mill 2 story home with central air and heat. I'm not sure, but I suspect the house was built in the 90s, maybe.

I just want to make sure that they don't get taken for a ride. We had a guy that we used when we lived near them, but since we sold the house, we don't have any of the documentation to see who that was which sucks, because we got a good vibe off of them and didn't feel like we got screwed.

rwest · rwest's Garage

Weeee, sounds like a great ride for the contractor. Quick google search shows the Goodman AC units for around $1000.

I have contact with the HVAC trade and can't believe when I hear what people pay for home HVAC.

Shop around those numbers seem high.

masraum · 02-07-2017, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwest

Weeee, sounds like a great ride for the contractor. Quick google search shows the Goodman AC units for around $1000.

I have contact with the HVAC trade and can't believe when I hear what people pay for home HVAC.

Shop around those numbers seem high.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I think we paid about 900-1000 for a new outside unit, but that was years ago. I'm sure we pay more for AC here than you may pay up north because it gets so hot.

Eric Coffey · 04:15 PM

Yep, sounds like a potential snow-job to me. I'd get another bid.

As mentioned, you should be able to source a complete 3-4 ton outdoor condenser unit for under $1k (that's with a new compressor, fan, and motor as well).

carambola · carambola's Garage

i thought the outside piece was the condenser and the inside piece was the coil.

shows what i know

billybek · billybek's Garage

R-22 in the system now?
Contractor is probably selling to a R410A condensing unit and evap coil.
Usually the line set is re usable. Usually is a key word here...

That quote seems high.

Why is it not possible to fix the existing coil?
Tube sheet leaks? Fixable.
Last time I checked, you could still get an R-22 condensing unit.
They come without a refrigerant charge and R-22 is getting pricey.

billybek · billybek's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by carambola

i thought the outside piece was the condenser and the inside piece was the coil.

shows what i know

The indoor coil is the evaporator coil, the condensing coil is located with the compressor and together is known as the condensing unit.

Brian 162 · 02-07-2017, 05:43 PM

If it's an older type refrigerant (R22) you can get a dry charged unit. That's a new outdoor unit with no refrigerant. You (the contractor) add the R22.
Sounds like he was guessing as to the number or where the leaks were. Try and find a more qualified contractor. Small leaks can be hard to find.

Baz · Baz's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybek

R-22 in the system now?
Contractor is probably selling to a R410A condensing unit and evap coil.
Usually the line set is re usable. Usually is a key word here...

That quote seems high.

Why is it not possible to fix the existing coil?
Tube sheet leaks? Fixable.
Last time I checked, you could still get an R-22 condensing unit.
They come without a refrigerant charge and R-22 is getting pricey.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian 162

If it's an older type refrigerant (R22) you can get a dry charged unit. That's a new outdoor unit with no refrigerant. You (the contractor) add the R22.
Sounds like he was guessing as to the number or where the leaks were. Try and find a more qualified contractor. Small leaks can be hard to find.

My system is still R22. When my outside unit went bad 2 years ago I ordered a drop shipment of a new outside unit from a place in Texas...like you said...shipped dry. Then i arranged for a local AC guy to come after hours and do the swap and charge. Paid cash and that was that.

I believe in the state of Florida now it's illegal to swap out the old unit if it's R22. Contractors have to change the whole system over. Of course, as a mere homeowner...I was able to do an end around.

Cajundaddy · Cajundaddy's Garage

Plan B:

My kid needed a complete AC do-over on her 90s built condo. Two contractors quoted $5-6K to upgrade. We found a company doing ductless mini-splits for $1600 installed. She loves it! Quiet as a mouse, excellent cooling and temp control, and electric bills dropped like a stone in August. It is a one BR condo about 1100 sq ft, but they make dual units for 2 story as well.

Not for everyone but it worked well for her. Worth a look.

masraum · 02-07-2017, 06:37 PM

Thanks, everyone. Lots of good info.

So the R410A must be the "incompatible" thing that they were talking about, although I think they should still be able to get the R22 replaced here, I think.

Alan A · 02-07-2017, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

The AC has stopped working in the kids' home. A guy came out and said there is 1 or maybe 2 leaks in the coils in the outdoor unit. He said that he would check to see if it was under warranty, but I'm not expecting that. He then said that he could fix/replace the coils outside for $2k, but it didn't make any sense to do that when they could get a new unit for $2500. What they currently have is a Goodman, my guess is that it's a 3-4 ton unit. That doesn't sound that crazy to me.

Then the guy said that if he replaced the outdoor unit, and the new unit wasn't compatible with the indoor unit, that he might have to replace both and that would run $5600. I've had both an indoor unit and an outdoor unit replaced on a home at two separate times. I don't think together the cost was that high, and I've never heard that the indoor and outdoor units could be incompatible.

They have a pretty run of the mill 2 story home with central air and heat. I'm not sure, but I suspect the house was built in the 90s, maybe.

I just want to make sure that they don't get taken for a ride. We had a guy that we used when we lived near them, but since we sold the house, we don't have any of the documentation to see who that was which sucks, because we got a good vibe off of them and didn't feel like we got screwed.

If it's R22 you'll need to change both.

Edit- nm I started at the top. You've already been told this.

T77911S · 02-08-2017, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

Then the guy said that if he replaced the outdoor unit, and the new unit wasn't compatible with the indoor unit, that he might have to replace both and that would run $5600. .

once he said this he is feeding you a line,. as long as the outside unit is sized for the inside unit there is no compatibility issue unless you are going from r22 to r410.
I think you can still get the r22 outside units but they are not pre-charged.
you can convert the inside unit to r410 if you can change the metering device. easy to do if you have a TXV, you just change the head.

we had a compressor changed at work, the guy put in a 410 comp that was previously r22. just change metering head and pressure switches.

I would also be leery of the "maybe 2 leaks' in the cond. get someone else out there,
have them show you the leak. they should either be able to show you with a leak detector or soap bubbles,

I put in a new HEIL system at my house. 4.5ton along with new duct. I think it was around 7-8K. I called my AC guy about the R22 to 410 swap they did at work and he said it was OK.

I think AC guys are some of the most crooked people out there, not saying all are. they can get away with it because most people no absolutely NOTHING about AC.
one of the guys I work with worked on AC before coming here. he said their company made them "up sell" work the customers did not need.

I do AC work but not for a living.

masraum · 02-08-2017, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T77911S

once he said this he is feeding you a line,. as long as the outside unit is sized for the inside unit there is no compatibility issue unless you are going from r22 to r410.
I think you can still get the r22 outside units but they are not pre-charged.
you can convert the inside unit to r410 if you can change the metering device. easy to do if you have a TXV, you just change the head.

we had a compressor changed at work, the guy put in a 410 comp that was previously r22. just change metering head and pressure switches.

I would also be leery of the "maybe 2 leaks' in the cond. get someone else out there,
have them show you the leak. they should either be able to show you with a leak detector or soap bubbles,

I put in a new HEIL system at my house. 4.5ton along with new duct. I think it was around 7-8K. I called my AC guy about the R22 to 410 swap they did at work and he said it was OK.

I think AC guys are some of the most crooked people out there, not saying all are. they can get away with it because most people no absolutely NOTHING about AC.
one of the guys I work with worked on AC before coming here. he said their company made them "up sell" work the customers did not need.

I do AC work but not for a living.

Good info, thx.

T77911S · 02-08-2017, 06:15 AM

goodman is most likely a fixed orifice tube, BUT, you may still be able to remove the tube and put in one for 410.

how old is the unit?

asphaltgambler · 02-08-2017, 06:38 AM

Upselling HVAC................. no different than any other consumer item. A/C techs earn a commission on upsells - replacing units is far more time efficient and profitable than fixing older mechanicals.

mattdavis11 · 02-08-2017, 02:41 PM

The last ac guy that came out to the house, used my gauges, and I told him when it was alright to stop charging. A 30 degree drop from outside ambient to inside vent temperature is NOT acceptable. I don't think most residential ac technicians know refrigeration very well.

drcoastline · 02-08-2017, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwest

Weeee, sounds like a great ride for the contractor. Quick google search shows the Goodman AC units for around $1000.

I have contact with the HVAC trade and can't believe when I hear what people pay for home HVAC.

Shop around those numbers seem high.

Sounds very high to me as well. Plus if it is more than 10 years old very inefficient compared to new. Doesn't make any sense to not replace the entire system.

daepp · 02-08-2017, 04:10 PM

In CA our electricity costs are so high that in the OP's situation we would most likely step up and get the highest SEER rating we could afford. And that would include (IIRC) a two speed compressor.

masraum · 02-08-2017, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daepp

In CA our electricity costs are so high that in the OP's situation we would most likely step up and get the highest SEER rating we could afford. And that would include (IIRC) a two speed compressor.

That's not an issue here. I don't think they plan to be in the house that long, and I also don't think they are prepared to pay for the best of the best.