What the hell is Apple thinking re: stale desktops ?

[JavaBrewer]

Haha, I'm the exact opposite. I oversee a team of software developers (and code when I can) and prefer my MBP vs desktop any day. I have a nice monitor at work and home that I can plugin to when needed but being able to take my work with me, and be productive with it, anywhere, is huge. Not being tied to a desk is very liberating. With my MBP (2010 model with SSD) I can connect to corporate VPN and also run different flavors of VMs to meet needs. Being able to do this consistently from anywhere in the world, including poolside, is appreciated. I also have an older iPad and tablet but they are regulated to games and light internet browsing only.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I've said this for years now, at some point after Jobs' death, Microsoft bought Apple. No innovation, software doesn't work as well and no main thrust or focus for the company.

Been an Apple evangelist since 1985. No reason to be anymore.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Other than gaming or uber high end graphics applications, there is simply no reason for a desktop. And Apple has nothing in the gaming space.

They did have a lot in desktop publishing/graphics applications.

While there doesn't seem to be much difference in tech, a new processor with a high end video card can render video much faster then the two year old tech.

Plus, as others have said, you can get a lot more performance per dollar with a tower over a laptop.

I have a work laptop, but for entertainment at home we all have a desktop. Much easier to upgrade performance when new games come out or when it becomes cost effective to upgrade so my wife can edit video quicker and easier. You cant just go grab a new nVidia GTX 1080 and drop it into your laptop.

If all you are doing is streaming Netflix/Prime/whatever or email/Facebook/pinterest, two year old tech is fine.

[rusnak]

I have a mid 2012 MBP with retina. Mountain Lion worked great. All of the updates after that turned this fine computer into a POS IBM clone.

[Deschodt]

Most of the iMacs / Minis run fine initially but turn into dogs after one or two OS X updates... if i was a conspiracy theory guy I'd say they build in obsolescence with each OS release, but then again they don't release new models, so....

My 2014 mini which would run Photoshop Ok initially now takes a minute to open it.... and there is nothing newer to buy....

I've re-installed it from scratch and it make surprisingly little difference for all the work... you have to perform major surgery (see below) to add memory and SSD, that helps but its still an older processor...



Just saying it would not kill them to refresh desktops more often than every 2 or 3 years... "buy a laptop" is not the solution for all... Again, I'm fine with it *if* that's the way they are going, I need to switch to Windoze then - but I'd like to know for sure... i have a track record for buying Macs 2 weeks before a new model comes out...

[Craig T]

For sure! Apple is the king of planned obsolescence.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Most of the iMacs / Minis run fine initially but turn into dogs after one or two OS X updates... if i was a conspiracy theory guy I'd say they build in obsolescence with each OS release, but then again they don't release new models, so....

My 2014 mini which would run Photoshop Ok initially now takes a minute to open it.... and there is nothing newer to buy....

I've re-installed it from scratch and it make surprisingly little difference for all the work... you have to perform major surgery (see below) to add memory and SSD, that helps but its still an older processor...



Just saying it would not kill them to refresh desktops more often than every 2 or 3 years... "buy a laptop" is not the solution for all... Again, I'm fine with it *if* that's the way they are going, I need to switch to Windoze then - but I'd like to know for sure... i have a track record for buying Macs 2 weeks before a new model comes out...

What are they supposed to refresh with?

Intel Skylake came out in mid 2015. Same 14 nm process as predecessor Broadwell. Successor Kabylake desktop processors were delayed from 2016 to Jan 2017. Same 14 nm process as Broadwell and Skylake, same core performance, same MHz, very few improvements unless you're doing something exotic and expensive like Optane memory. So from mid 2015 to early 2017, there simply has been no new Intel desktop processor for Apple to build a new iMac around, and now that there is a new one, it isn't hardly better than the old one.

Intel is simply stalled out. It used to significantly improve desktop processor performance every year, now it makes only a minor improvement every two years. Intel is hitting the wall on process shrinks, it hasn't figured out a way to get back on its old improvement curve, and it is more focused on laptop and server CPUs than on desktop CPUs.

This is an Intel problem. A pretty serious one. For Apple, it is also a problem. Not a big one, but not one they can do anything about. At least, not until they give up on Intel and start making their own Mac processors. Which may not make sense.

If you want to speed up your 2015 iMac, install 16 GB DRAM and SSD.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by jyl

What are they supposed to refresh with?....

If you want to speed up your 2015 iMac, install 16 GB DRAM and SSD.

^^^^^ This.

I'm a dinosaur, but have watched processors, networks, etc. evolve from the information dirt road to the superhighway . I seriously doubt that processor speeds are the "weak link" for virtually anyone these daze...just my .02...been that way for years. I/O access has always been the snail...even direct memory access is a bottleneck. Think about a 1000 hp street car as an analagy....YMMV.

[jyl]

Read this: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/intel-core-i7-7700k-kaby-lake-review/

"Intel's Kaby Lake Core i7-7700K is what happens when a chip company stops trying. The top-end Kaby Lake part is the first desktop chip in a brave new post-"tick-tock" world—which means that instead of major improvements to architecture, process, and instructions per clock (IPC), we get slightly higher clock speeds and a way to decode DRM-laden 4K streaming video. Huzzah.

For the average consumer building or buying a new performance-focused PC, a desktop chip based on 14nm Kaby Lake remains the chip of choice—a total lack of competition at this level makes sure of that.

But for the enthusiast—where the latest and greatest should perform better than what came before—Kaby Lake desktop chips are a disappointment, a stopgap solution that does little more than give OEMs something new to stick on a label in a 2017 product stack."

Kabylake has some slight improvements in the laptop line, but for desktops, it has almost nothing to offer over Skylake.

"The quad-core i7-7700K, which sits at the very top of the Kaby Lake lineup, is less interesting. Compared to the sixth-gen i7-6700K Skylake processor that preceded it, the i7-7700K gains a small bump in base and boost clocks to 4.2GHz and 4.5GHz respectively, as well as the deceptively named Intel HD Graphics 630. The latter, while new in name, is largely identical to the Intel HD Graphics 530 found in the i7-6700K. There are no major architectural changes, and it runs at the same 1150MHz clock speed. What you do get is support for 4K media decoding inside Windows 10's PlayReady 3.0 DRM, which makes 4K Netflix possible on PC."

In fact, some think Intel's desktop performance arguably taken a major step forward since Broadwell, over four years ago.

Say what you will about Apple, they don't usually release a new product that is the same as the old product with a new label on it.

[rusnak]

I believe my comment was about the Apple OSx updates, not the hardware.

[jyl]

So don't update the OS if you don't want to.

Usually, the reason a Mac or PC gets slower with age isn't the OS, it's all the stuff that we have loading on startup and running in the background. Go through the processes and memory usage and figure out what you are running. Adobe is a common culprit.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jyl

RWhat you do get is support for 4K media decoding inside Windows 10's PlayReady 3.0 DRM, which makes 4K Netflix possible on PC."

OT
What kind of bandwidth do you need for 4k streaming from Netflix? I can't imagine this works out very well for most folks (not that most folks are probably streaming 4k or can tell the difference if their 4k stream drops to HD from time to time.

I can't imagine that most ISPs are ready to support streaming 4k on any sort of regular basis.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by jyl

So don't update the OS if you don't want to.

Usually, the reason a Mac or PC gets slower with age isn't the OS, it's all the stuff that we have loading on startup and running in the background. Go through the processes and memory usage and figure out what you are running. Adobe is a common culprit.

^ Again changing the issue.

Did I say slower? No, I did not say slower. How about crashy, locky and whoever designed the later Yosemite and El Capitan is a piece of dick cheese...

You said slower and then raised a collateral issue.

[jyl]

Sorry, I didn't really pay much attention to what you wrote, it didn't seem to have much to do with the OP's thread, and now it really doesn't.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by jyl

Sorry, I didn't really pay much attention to what you wrote, it didn't seem to have much to do with the OP's thread, and now it really doesn't.

Do you even read what you write?

Actually, I know why you responded to me and to Deschodt. It's because you're such an Apple fanboi, you don't know how to fill your time between Apple product launches.

[Deschodt]

Well this is a start...

Apple today introduced spec-bumped versions of the current Mac Pro, marking the first updates to Apple's pro-oriented desktop computer in over three years. Apple also confirmed it is working on a "completely rethought" Mac Pro with Apple-branded pro displays that will launch at some point beyond this year.


The existing Quad-Core model with dual AMD FirePro D300 GPUs is now 6-Cores with dual D500 GPUs and 16GB of RAM for $2,999, while the 6-Core model with dual AMD FirePro D500 GPUs is now 8-Cores with dual D700 GPUs and 16GB of RAM for $3,999. There remain no Thunderbolt 3 ports or any other hardware changes.

Essentially, this means the existing $3,999 model is now the $2,999 base model, while an 8-Core model with dual D700 GPUs is the new high-end option. Both models are equipped with 256GB PCIe-based flash storage, four USB 3.0 ports, six Thunderbolt 2 ports, dual Gigabit Ethernet ports, and one HDMI 1.4 port.

Meanwhile, Apple said an all-new Mac Pro will be a high-end, high-throughput modular system that will "take longer than this year" to complete. It will be accompanied by an Apple-branded external display in at least one size, essentially marking the return of the discontinued Thunderbolt Display.

[flipper35]

https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/04/apple-is-completely-redesigning-the-mac-pro-again/

[jyl]

Thank goodness.

I didn't like the cylinder Mac Pro. A pro desktop should be roomy for additional cards and drives. The previous Mac Pro was a beautiful and functional machine.

Intel has been advancing its server (Xeon) processors and now has Optane memory that, while very expensive, is a real advance.

However, the real action in server processors is ARM-based processors that are massively multi core (64 cores etc) to handle high volumes of independent threads with low power consumption, for cloud datacenter applications. Intel has not much going on there.

[Deschodt]

They also hinted at new iMacs by year's end but no noews on the mini despite its continued presence in the lineup... Guess I'll wait some more... I work on windoze all day and I really don't want this stuff at home...

[BlueSkyJaunte]

The only reason we still have a desktop at home is to have something to rip DVDs with and to sync our iPhones to. So that's a 2009 iMac 24" that I stuck a 2TB drive into.

Everything else is either cheap or old. Or both.

Home 3d print server -> Raspberry Pi Zero running OctoPrint
Home media server -> RP3 running OpenMediaValue + a couple 4GB USB HDs
Home theater devices -> RP3s running Kodi
Home arcade device for kiddos -> RP3 running EmulationStation
Wife's web-surfy thing -> Cheap-ass ChromeBook
My 3d + general workhorse -> 2013-era Lenovo Yoga 13
My web-surfy thing -> iPad Air
Kids' homework -> MacBook from 2007 (I think!)
Kids' plaything -> iPad mini 2

Unless you're a hardcore gamer, you don't need even a 4-year old desktop. And frankly, you can get plenty hardcore with a PS4 or whatever the latest console is. Hell, my oldest kid spends hours playing mostly iOS games.

The consumer market for desktops is dead. The gamer market for desktops is heavily eaten into by consoles. Nobody in my company has a desktop of his own - if he needs more horsepower than the standard IT laptop he can log into one of our virtual environments.