Yep, you have no bargaining position. I remember somewhere from law school that there has to be a meeting of the minds to form a contract. That really doesn't exist here. The carriers have long, well written policies that no one ever reads. You buy the ticket thinking that is the entire deal but even if you disagree with the policies, you cannot negotiate them away.

There really should be some statutory penalty to the carrier. If they can't manage their employee transit and over sell flights then a penalty kicks in and the disenfranchised passenger gets rewarded. That may stop their BS.

But I doubt it...

Video shows man forcibly removed from United flight from Chicago to Louisville

I'd be willing to bet he's still sitting in a room at the airport, handcuffed to the table, and has no idea what day or time it is...

yup

I don't fly United or Delta, ever.

Same airport as the video I posted, isn't it?

Definitely never going through Chicago if I can help it.

Chicago, the town of; if you like your seat, you can keep your seat.

Chicago, the town of; you'll just have to buy a ticket to actually know what it does.

The airline absolutely can remove a passenger. What if the plane weighs too much? Dump luggage or passengers or don't fly? Do you think they're really going to cancel a flight because they can't get anyone to give up their seats? Once they ask you to leave, refusing to do so is a crime. You may be able to fight it out with the lawyers, but you ain't gonna win the argument while on the plane. Just will never happen.

A completely different take on this:

Had I been on that aircraft and witnessed some airport security thugs assaulting a passenger in that manner, particularly one who appears to be a bit older and quite small, I would have started busting skulls. Grab a hard-case carry -on out of a bin and just start clocking them with it. Steal one of their billy clubs in the melee and bust their heads open. It would have definitely been on...

There is absolutely NO justification for what I just saw. And the thugs gleefully carrying out those orders should have been the first to pay for this poor decision. Work your way up from there.

And for the hand-wringers out there who are bound to point out "but you would go to jail" - yeah, you are right. But there isn't a jury in this country, that having watched that video, would convict anyone who came to that man's defense.

Yes, it is their plane.

However, it also shows a serious lack of fore sight and customer service in how they dealt with this.

There's a video in PARF where their were cheers at a lady being removed. There weren't complaints of their ability to do it there. It was also a positive for the airline in how they handled that situation. This is not.

There is definitely more to the story. My guess is that this Asian doctor said something or acted in a way that led UA to believe he shouldn't be on the flight.

Zero doubt, it is their aircraft. They can remove a passenger. However, the need to have some reasonable compensation, and reasonable from the passenger's point of view. As I said, a simple bidding war would be quick and easy. Start at $500 and keep adding 50 bucks and someone will bite.

It cost them a whole LOT more to do it the way they did. Delaying the flight was very expensive, as in mega thousands.

Very wishful thinking. And totally incorrect.

I got into it with one of those TSA people in Phoenix one time. Some guy ran through security so they got everyone off the planes and everybody had to go out through security, then get rescreened. This old couple, woman pushing a man in a wheelchair, combined age 150+, talking about needing to contact their family about the delay. I give the lady my cell phone, and push the man in the wheelchair for her. We get up to security, and they are demanding the old man get out of the chair and walk. I was not having any of that. They think it is my parents or something, no, just some couple I never saw before. TSA could not believe anyone would help some stranger.

The old guy did not get out of the chair in the end, and I shamed the TSA goons, people were actually applauding. The old couple's family called my phone, wanting to talk to them, but they already were on the plane. "Who are you?" Just some guy who bumped into your parents in the airport.

So was the TSA agent a faith healer? Just hit the old man's forehead and say heal!, you can walk. My mom was in a wheelchair on a airline trip. The airlines were super accommodating but it was before the days of the silly TSA rules. Good for you standing up to them.

Yep, juries tend to blindly vote to convict. They certainly don't think about whether the underlying law is unjust, just whether it was violated or not.

That said, I'd be inclined to defend the rights of the doctor myself.

I gotta admit I didn't watch the video until just now,

And unless there's more to the story that was pretty uncalled for.


In my mind I had envisioned a snotty middle-aged white fella shouting "i'm a doctor, I'll sue your ass!" or something.

My bad!

she was a crazy-assed douche-bag idiot loooser who was removed because she was causing trouble and couldn't shut her hideous yap even after being warned several times.
She had it coming.

Is there another form of legitimate business where you purchase the service/product and can then be denied that service/product and be arrested (after being beaten) if you challenge or resist the denial/witholding of that service/product?

Just curious.

Pretty much any business that involves you stepping onto the business's property.

Concert, NFL, etc...

Ever read the print on the back of tickets? I do.

Government. It is supposed to be a "social contract, but I can be denied my rights and if I decide not to pay taxes because my rights have been infringed, I can be arrested (after being beaten). The courts have universally held that I am to hold up my end of the bargain (pay taxes) no matter whether the government holds up theirs.

That's the catch. The 'contract of carriage' does not guarantee you will get to your destination 'on time.' I don't even know if it guarantees you will get to your destination, or go anywhere at all. And that's what they will say. They didn't 'deny service' to this individual, they just denied it 'on this particular flight.'

I tried to read some of it, but I don't have 4 hours to read through it. It's a few hundred pages.

https://www.united.com/web/en-US/content/contract-of-carriage.aspx

I read they offered $400, then $800 before they went to random selection. If I wasn't in a hurry, I might have taken it.

Internal Error

....Before the flight departed, Bridges said passengers had been told at the gate that the airline was offering $400 and a hotel stay for any volunteer who would take a flight at 3 p.m. the next day. After passengers boarded, however, a crewmember alerted fliers that people would have to give up their seats to stand-by United employees who needed to be in Kentucky for work, Bridges told the Courier-Journal.

Even though United upped the offer $800, and the airline announced that the flight wouldn't depart until the crewmembers were situated, no one budged.

That's when security officers reportedly boarded the plane. Initially, the Post reports, one couple was asked to leave-- they both complied-- and then the man seen in the video was confronted...