Anything to worry about?

[speeder]

The alternate title for this could be, "I'm an idiot, volume 63."

I dropped a small rubber plug into the oil pan of the engine I just assembled. I was putting it into the hole where the dipstick enters the pan, (to keep dirt out), and it was too small and fell in.

It's in the pan and would not be able to get past the screen on the sump to get sucked into the veins of the engine while running. The worst thing I can envision is it getting stuck in the screen, due to the small hood over it, and blocking a very small percentage of oil intake to sump. Hopefully, it will come out w an oil change in the future. I can't get it out by removing the drain plug and hitting the pan w a rubber mallet, I tried.

Of course, I could remove the oil pan and retrieve it but that is no small job because it's glued on w very high strength chemical adhesive and it would be several hours of removing the old sealant before reinstalling. Trust me on this.

Is there any reason to worry about it in there? Give me your expert opinions. Here are some pics, including a twin to the offending item:





It went in this hole:

[pwd72s]

Any chance of fishing it out through the drain plug? Another crazy thought...my shop vac has a small diameter blower nozzle. I've plugged tubing onto that nozzle for more size reduction, can really vacuum in spaces I couldn't reach otherwise. So, maybe a piece of small dia. tubing hooked to a shop vac could pick it up. My 6.5 horsepower shop vac really sucks...I call it Monica. A small tube with it's sucking force would pick up the piece if you got anywhere close..

[stomachmonkey]

I would try turning the motor upside down and shaking it kinda like when you drop a pick inside a guitar.

I assume the motor has clean oil in it? If not it will need some at some point anyway.

Try draining it and see if it floats out.

[rusnak]

Can you peek in there and see it? Maybe you can pluck it out with a pair of tweezers like a wood splinter.

[fastfredracing]

I honestly cannot see it causing any harm. Of course, the hour or so you would spend pulling the pan, will be be better than a lifetime of worrying about the what if's.

[wswartzwel]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

I honestly cannot see it causing any harm. Of course, the hour or so you would spend pulling the pan, will be be better than a lifetime of worrying about the what if's.

+1
Try adding some diesel or kerosene to the crankcase... positioning the engine so the drain plug is at the lowest point then pull the drain plug. perhaps it will drain out with the fluid.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

I would try suction idea through dipstick hole. I like the kerosene idea too.

Another quick ( probably unsuccessful) idea to avoid removing pan.
Assuming no oil in engine.
Tilt engine at strong angle with drain hole at lowest point.
Blast highest possible pressure compressed air into dipstick hole where plug fell.
This just might be enough to get the piece to rattle/ move towards drain hole, at least to a point where you cold retrieve it.
Perhaps even mount vacuum to oil plug drain hole with a good seal (but you'd need a clean vacuum bin to see the piece to know if it got sucked out)
Spend no more than 60 seconds or so on above idea

[Chocaholic]

Go ride motorcycles around Europe for a week. Come back, open a cold beer, spend 3 hours removing the pan, collect the offending plug, reinstall pan and never worry about it again.

[vonsmog]

How about shoving a camera in the drain hole? The one I have has a claw on the end to grab things. Might be able to see it and retrieve it that way.

[manbridge 74]

I don't think it's a big deal but a bore scope with sticky tape reverse wrapped toward the tip could also get it out.

[yetibone]

I doubt that vacuum plug will cause a problem unless, through some strange injector sleeve / seal failure you end up with a gallon of diesel in the crankcase. That would make that rubber plug turn into goo which could compromise the lube oil pump and pressure control valve..

The worst I could imagine is the lube oil pressure control valve sticking open, causing lube oil pressure to go near zero, HPOS would get starved for oil to run the injectors, IDM would stop firing the injectors once control pressure dropped below 500 psi, engine would shut down in about 2 minutes after losing lube pressure, and long before any cam and lifter damage was done.

...but I doubt that would happen. That vacuum plug will likely just live a quiet and boring life down there in the pan.

[syncroid]

Denis, I would be concerned with the rubber plug getting chewed up by the crank and getting turned into lots of little pieces that could get past the pick up screen.
Hate to say it, but if it were me, I would pull the pan and get it out. Better safe then sorry.

[craigster59]

I can send you a few really cool surgical instruments that you might be able to grab it with. Let me know if that's an option.

[craigster59]

Something like this...

[vash]

I second the camera option. I know me. I would obsesse over it.

[speeder]

Thanks for all the responses. There is probably no getting it out, unfortunately. The drain is dead center in the bottom of the flat part of the bottom of the pan, not on an edge or in a corner where you could tilt the engine to make it roll that way. I'll try the shop vac and compressed air but really doubt it will come out. The drain is relatively small w threads going fairly deep upwards. It may come out w a future oil change, maybe.

It cannot get "chewed up by the crank", the entire oil pan interior is covered w a huge sheet metal baffle w some holes in it. Think a swimming pool cover w a few holes. It is in bottom of pan already, (engine is still dry).

I don't have a horoscope camera. It would be a neat thing to have but doubt I'd find one today. All of the cheap ones I found when looking last time worked w PC/Android and I don't have any of those.

I don't think I even have enough of special glue/sealant that International uses to seal the pan left. I got one big tube w the lower gasket set for motor.

Time to clean the shop vac really well and play w that. I'm also going to see if the other plug sinks or floats in oil. If it sinks, I'm less worried.

Thanks again.

[pa911]

Remove the drain plug and blow air in dipstick hole?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I would try turning the motor upside down and shaking it kinda like when you drop a pick inside a guitar.

I assume the motor has clean oil in it? If not it will need some at some point anyway.

Try draining it and see if it floats out.

The engine is still dry. It holds over 4 gallons of oil w a dry fill so no reason to add that weight while hoisting it in. I've thought about running a gallon through w drain plug removed to see if it comes out. I might do this, after trying the shop vac method.

As for tipping and shaking, (besides the fact that it would put the rubber plug somewhere over than where you want it), you would need to borrow several mature apes or gorillas from the zoo, bring them home and feed them pcp while playing a continuous loop of modern country music to get them pissed off enough to tip and shake a 1k lb. motor while somehow not touching the other vehicles and machinery in the shop. Not practical.

As my dad used to say, "you're using a machine gun to kill a mosquito".

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Chocaholic

Go ride motorcycles around Europe for a week. Come back, open a cold beer, spend 3 hours removing the pan, collect the offending plug, reinstall pan and never worry about it again.

I like the way you think but unfortunately, I need to install this engine and button up the shop before leaving town.

Otherwise, it would be manana/adios.

[yetibone]

you would need to borrow several mature apes or gorillas from the zoo, bring them home and feed them pcp while playing a continuous loop of modern country music to get them pissed off enough to tip and shake a 1k lb. motor

Now that was funny.

Maybe you could hold onto the dipstick holder with a long piece of vacuum line stuffed thru the dipstick hole, and take the big nut loose that attaches the holder in the side of the pan to open up a bigger hole to go fishing in. I know, its very risky, losing the dipstick holder into the bottom of the pan, and the windage baffle will be in the way, but it's an idea. just make sure the vacuum line is large enough diameter to stay in the hole with some friction.

I've done this on 7.3's to replace the o-ring between the holder and the pan with the engine in the truck.