Question on installation of pre-hung exterior door

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

So I have a nagging question on a pre-hung exterior door I installed. Did three of them, one came out not so well.


On this one door in particular:

Door is fiberglass with a glass insert.

After installation (screwing in, putting in foam and silicone)

I have all four corners square, little to no deflection on the metal angle.

Using a four foot level the door jamb is even inside and outside on the hinge and opening sides. The level shows level.

Using a three foot level on the door jamb on the top all shows as level and no deflection noted.

Did not check the kickplate on the bottom.

The actual opening in the wall is neither square nor level but is close. The slab was level but not perfectly smooth.


Problem: After two days there is a gap of air after installation in the upper corner on the opening side.


Needed fix: How to correct this without taking the frame out (seems too extreme). Do not know if this helps/hurts but the brand of door is Masonite.

The other two doors/frames are doing fine.

[dad911]

Can you adjust door (shims or thin washers under hings) or weatherstriping to close the gap?

A few long screws in the hinges (into the stud) will keep the door from moving.

When I hang doors I typically level the hinge side, then set the rest of the frame so that the gaps are the same, and the door touches the stop(weatherstripping) evenly.

[ossiblue]

What I have found, on occasion, is that a 4-foot level does not always read true on a vertical jamb that is over six feet long, especially on pre-hung doors where the jamb is relatively thin. You might have a bit of a wave in the jamb that may be vertical where you place your level, but is actually out of plumb if you move the level down (or up) to the other end. In you case, if you placed the level at the top and got a true reading for the hinge side jamb but didn't move the level to the base to confirm if the lower part of the jamb is vertical, it could result in the door being a bit out of square since the lower hinge may be "kicked in" a bit, lowering the opposite, upper corner of the door, allowing a small gap. Dad911's method is a good way to ensure a square fitting door.

[gatotom]

everything said above is spot on.......but sometimes the door is not perfect and has a slight bow and if that is the case, remove door off hinges and sight down edge, if slightly bowed, take door back were you got it for another one.

[ckelly78z]

It sounds like the door itself is out of square, possibley grab the swinging corner, and gently persuade the door into a square state. If it is square, I would shim one hinge (either bottom, or top) to make it level. When you find a nice balence, shim the middle hinge to match.

It could also be the framing is twisted. As in - one of the cripples is kicked out or in compared to the other side of the door. The door could be installed square in the rough opening, but not flat.

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Thanks Guys!!

I will double check when I get back home tonight. Did not check the door to ensure it was not warped.

Dad, I have several long screws in the hinges and at the open side through shims and into the studs to keep the door in place.

This location was poorly framed. The hinge side was way out of whack comparatively. I had to do the bad thing of putting it in the opposite side first. Supported, checked and got very square. It all seemed to be working together very well once I had the lock side jamb squared.

LJ, I checked top and bottom, not middle. I have a bullet level I can run up and down the jambs. I can also use a 2'. I do not believe I checked the interior (side facing the door not the outside or inside) for level but that should not show as my issue, correct?

Maybe I will try some shims at the top hinge and see what that does. I have never been down this path before so time to learn a new trick!

[javadog]

Personally, I would not hang a door without a 4 foot level. It's really important to make the hinge side plumb in both directions and dead straight. Once you've accomplished that, squaring up the rest of it is not hard. A brand-new door, should be really Square, so if you have any gap at all when checking it with a framing square, it needs to be adjusted .

You also need to check both your level and your framing square to make sure they are accurate. Most brand-new levels are not perfect and I've seen framing squares that are off as well.

And one last tip, when you're shimming the hinge side, make sure you have enough shims behind the door jamb that it can't move when you screw it down. You can put too much pressure on it, or too little, and take a perfectly straight jamb and put a bend or twist in it if you're not careful.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

one of the cripples is kicked out

I don't think that is a very politically correct thing to say .....

[T77911S]

not an expert
but is it possible you "pulled" the jam away from the door? IE the shim between the door casing and the frame should have been thicker.
if the door casing is catawampus then you should have a gap at the opposite corner, no?

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

As in - one of the cripples is kicked out or in compared to the other side of the door.

Jack stud? Anatomy of a Stud-Framed Wall - Fine Homebuilding


I would start with the hinge side stud. Make sure it is plumb both directions, straight, and solidly secured top and bottom.
Sometimes/usually studs are not.
That is the main attachment point that everything will be based on.
If it is bowed in the center, double or triple up the king studs holding up the rim joist above, knock those into place, so the load from above transfers around your door framing and doesn't affect it. Then remove bow with belt sander w/40grit or chisel(?) or another method which works faster and better. I'm somewhat of a hack and definitely not a pro.

If using a light door in a non-load-bearing wall, the gap can be sucked out by screwing with longer screws into a straight adjoined stud or the stud adjusted with a BFH and secured with 4"+ screws when finally aligned correctly.

The hinge-side must be shimmed and everything secured tight and pancaked into solid studs before moving on to the rest of the door.

Screws too tight can sometimes tweak the frame if there is any gap behind it. Careful of this. Use shims behind.
Pre-drilling will help prevent movement.
Check corner to corner measurements. Measure twice.
Take your time.
That door will be swung thousands of times.

Next look at sill plate to hinge-side.
This must be exactly perpendicular or it will throw off all square. The hinge-side may have to sit up to 1/2-1" higher (as I once found out with a sill that was not level at all), but hopefully not. If the handle-side sits lower it can easily be shimmed up so no worries there.
Actually this should be checked before tightening down the hinge-side.

Hinge side good? Sill plate good and strong? Shim up the other two sides and secure. You are done. Congrats.
Use the lightweight foam made 'for doors and windows' only.

[URY914]

^^^I agree with you that screws being too tight can cause problems. Impact drivers are great tools but don't use them all the time. Use your drill set on the right torque setting to get the best results.

And foaming the space with the wrong foam will move the frame and you're screwed with that. You'll be doing it all again after you dig that foam out.

[masraum]

[bkreigsr]

Originally Posted by masraum

BONDO...priceless...thanks Steve
I've thought of this.

I did the door between my kitchen and garage - everything seemed perfect till about a week later I noticed a 1/4" gap on the latch side at the top edge. Hinge side was perfect.

I think I miss-measured the existing studs for square. You can only see gap if the garage lighting is off and the kitchen lights are on. A small triangle of light peeks into the garage.

Also I thing that the garage floor (also a slab) has an incline built-in to aid drainage.

Bondo sounds good right about now.

Bill K

[look 171]

Tape the 4' level to a long stick (usually on edge) and make sure that stick is straight and use that to re-check the frame. I bet you will find that the frame is out still. Its not the best way, but you don't have go out and buy a long level. The big boys hang doors this way. They use a plumb bob and measure the jab to the line.

[eastbay]

Pretty easy to bend either the upper or lower hinge pivots to get the door where you want it to be.