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Leadfoot Geezer
 
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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911, 718 and Cayenne sales are falling off while Macan & Panamera are climbing

Looks like sports cars just aren't doing it for Porsche anymore.



"July sales of Cayenne models were 873 SUVs as compared to 1067 last year for a decline of more than 18%. This isn't that alarming in that I'm sure some of the decline is due to the Macan cannibalizing some sales coupled with the fact that a refresh is due any moment and many buyers will choose to wait for its release.
However, July sales of 911 models were 587 vehicles as compared to 732 the previous July. That's a drop of more than 27% that can't easily be explained.
Perhaps, most alarmingly, is the drop in Boxster/Cayman sales. PCNA doesn't break them out separately, but 718 sales this July were 331 as compared to 732 last year. That's a 55% decrease."


"The models driving sales are, of course, the Macan and the Panamera. July deliveries for the Macan totaled 1600 or a 71.9% increase over the same period in 2016. Year-to-date, Macan sales are up 35.1% and stand at 12,238 vehicles. Panamera deliveries registered at 510, a 49.1% increase over last year. Year-to-date, Panamera sales are up 38.2% with 3,511 vehicles sold."

Porsche Cars North America Sales by Model: July 2017 | FLATSIXES
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Last edited by rcooled; 08-08-2017 at 08:33 PM..
Old 08-08-2017, 08:30 PM
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Realistically, what drives the purchase of most new Porsches and how is that not found in the more convenient package of the Macan and the Panamera?
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:41 PM
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Slackerous Maximus
 
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Sorry, but like hell I'm paying $80,000 for a 4 cylinder turbo. Not happening.

911's will do just fine.....until they get rid of the flat 6. IF they go with a flat 8, there is hope.
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Old 08-09-2017, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrboulder View Post
Realistically, what drives the purchase of most new Porsches and how is that not found in the more convenient package of the Macan and the Panamera?
The Panamera is an amazing car, but it is BIG. We have a 2017 Macan and it was in for service for a factory recall for the fuel tank flange part. Apparently the parts supplier had an issue. The dealer gave my wife a new Panamera as a loaner.

It is as long as my El Camino which is longer than the 1980s Station Wagons. If fit in the garage but filled up the spot lengthwise.




I rode in the back seat to go back to the dealership. It has more rear legroom than many cars have for the front seat.

On the showroom floor they had a nice looking 911 TurboS for a nice $229,999
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:20 AM
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Twenty years ago you needed a sports car or good hot hatch to get good fun great handling and well weighted direct steering. Pretty much all SUV's and the majority of sedans would wallow down the road. Today cars have not just got bigger, meaning that people feel more exposed in smaller cars, but there has been a seismic shift in the ride and handling of vehicles. Look at this vid. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj9b5qBvg3s a new Mecan can beat a 944 turbo by 10 seconds at VIR. People can get the performance they want in an SUV/Wagon/Hatch that could only be dreamed of 20 years ago. In addition to the massive shift in performance automobiles in general are no longer seen as an expression of freedom for the masses, they now have a more negative conotation in many people eyes so many people are happy to drive something that still provides all the driving thrills people they seek while flying a little under the Radar. Finally many more enthusiasts than in the past have a 2nd, 3rd or 4th car. so if you have you classic for back road or weekend fun, why not daily something more practical but still fun?
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:19 AM
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Most folks just don't want/need a 2 seat sports car or even a 2+2. Most folks want more seats, more space, an automatic and often more visibility (from being up high). Also, the 911 is the most expensive car (base price) that Porsche sells. Yeah, you can get a Panamera cheaper than you can get a 911. The Macan is cheaper than a Coxster too, I think. The macan is also fairly capable. I'd totally have a Macan or Cayenne as a second car (We're a one car family with just a boxster). My wife would love a Cayenne.

The other thing, all of the other models have been around longer and have more new and used around. I suspect they have plateaued until something really ground-breaking comes along, but the others are still saturating the market.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcooled View Post
Looks like sports cars just aren't doing it for Porsche anymore.
We live in a relatively affluent area near Houston and for every 911/Cayman/Boxter I see around here, I will see 5 or 6 Panameras or Cayennes if not more ...

One surprising event however, the other day a guy in a newer 911 (no idea what year) flashed his lights at me. Usually just the air-cools (and I see very few of them) seem to do that anymore, at least around here.
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Old 08-10-2017, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardDrive View Post
Sorry, but like hell I'm paying $80,000 for a 4 cylinder turbo. Not happening.
Exactly... Yes they have more torque and are probably still great cars overall, but they are optioned to the gills and hard to find anywhere near MSRP. That's not how you convince sports cars die hards to "try" a 4 banger turbo. 80K is not rare for a 4 banger 718S... The last 6 cyl 981s are retaining value like crazy. The Spyders even more so !

Same with the 991.1 (last N/A 911 that is not a GT3 derivative), it is retaining its value quite well despite the 991.2 (turbo) objectively being a *much* faster car. Porsche enthusiasts don't necessarily buy those cars for ultimate street performance, they drive them for the experience, and NA engines deliver more of that rev/wail... Porsche has >50y of making sweet naturally aspirated 6s - with the turbo model being a beast. Now?

I hope They revert back to 6s in caymans and boxsters, 4-turbos are not really saving much gas anyway. Also not surprised the Macan is selling well, it's a nice looking and driving small truck with a clear RWD bias which makes it definitely different from your run of the mill Audi/VW/Honda. It wants to rotate, I liked it when they loaned me one...
Old 08-10-2017, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardDrive View Post
Sorry, but like hell I'm paying $80,000 for a 4 cylinder turbo. Not happening.

911's will do just fine.....until they get rid of the flat 6. IF they go with a flat 8, there is hope.
Flat 8 does not make any practical or economical sense.
They would have done it long time ago if there was.
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:16 AM
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Now in 993 land ...
 
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Fat. People are getting fatter. They all need SUVs and vans.

And of course, in the old days there were no SUVs and 4 door sedans by Porsche, so now they are in a new segment, selling like crazy in it too.

I don't really get it, but I do admit, I am looking at old pepperwagons wondering if they aren't a good buy at $10k.

G
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Old 08-10-2017, 08:17 AM
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Today I saw a Macan S ( I think ) that was black with black wheels and tinted windows it was one sharp looking SUV . Even the quad tailpipes two on each side looked aggressive . In my opinion Porsche hit a home run with that vehicle and the sales prove that out . Things in life run in cycles right now SUV's and trucks are hot . One fuel crisis will change that . People have been killing off the 911 for 30 + years I wouldn't stick a fork in it yet .
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deschodt View Post

I hope They revert back to 6s in caymans and boxsters, 4-turbos are not really saving much gas anyway. Also not surprised the Macan is selling well, it's a nice looking and driving small truck with a clear RWD bias which makes it definitely different from your run of the mill Audi/VW/Honda. It wants to rotate, I liked it when they loaned me one...
I assume the mileage figures aren't really for the owners, but is for the EPA, and in that case, as long as they can offer any improvement at all, I suspect it's here to stay.

Besides, the folks that are the market for the new cars are often not the hard core enthusiasts or they'd be buying a Lotus. And the new cars are supposed to handle better and are faster so most folks won't know or care.

A buddy gave me a VERY short ride in his new Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrifoglio(sp). I'm sure he left it in whatever the regular mode was and gunned it a tiny bit, but we were in the middle of downtown going the direction of the VERY short blocks. The turbo would barely start to spool when he'd have to let off and stop. He's also never had a performance vehicle. His last (and probably sportiest) vehicle was a Honda Accord. It was a nice looking car, and the interior was nice. I really liked how the stereo/infotainment system was integrated with the dash. The integration was much better than most other vehicles, but will be, I think impossible to upgrade. Anyway, I'm sure it's a hoot to drive, but it's much easier to have fun in my Boxster S since it's NA.

I also used to have a regular miata and a mazdaspeed(turbo) miata. The mazdaspeed was better in everyway, but the naturally aspirated model did have better throttle response or at least more torque off idle to about 2500 which was nice.

I've driven a Cayenne. I think it would be a great grocery-getter type of vehicle. I think a Macan would be even better, but I think the missus would prefer the larger Cayenne. I guess when the time comes, we'll see.
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:18 PM
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The quadrifoglio, or quattrofromaggio as we like to call it, is something else... A Ferrari V8 lopped off to a V6, plus the boost. It's a fantastic car outside of city blocks ;-) But the recent reliability reviews by all major magazines make it a very hard car to justify buying... Sadly. Because i want one when it's depreciated by 50% (in a couple of weeks ?)

I'm not against turbos or superchargers, for instance they are great on a GTI or my old Audi S4 respectively (what a rush that was), I'm less happy with Porsche going against 50 years of their own history for the sake of MPG savings that does not even materialize in real use. And mostly for the 4 cyl.. I must admit the new flat 6 turbo adds so much torque it's hard to hate it... I'll always prefer NA engines.

Last edited by Deschodt; 08-11-2017 at 08:26 AM..
Old 08-11-2017, 08:18 AM
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Take a look around. Some BIG people out there. So not surprising.

Also, take a look at sedan sales across the board. The sedan/saloon is basically on deathwatch.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deschodt View Post
The quadrifoglio, or quattrofromaggio as we like to call it, is something else... A Ferrari V8 lopped off to a V6, plus the boost. It's a fantastic car outside of city blocks ;-) But the recent reliability reviews by all major magazines make it a very hard car to justify buying... Sadly. Because i want one when it's depreciated by 50% (in a couple of weeks ?)

I'm not against turbos or superchargers, for instance they are great on a GTI or my old Audi S4 respectively (what a rush that was), I'm less happy with Porsche going against 50 years of their own history for the sake of MPG savings that does not even materialize in real use. And mostly for the 4 cyl.. I must admit the new flat 6 turbo adds so much torque it's hard to hate it... I'll always prefer NA engines.
Myself and another colleague tried to tell this guy to NOT buy the car until it had been out a couple of years and had the bugs worked out, but he would not be dissuaded.

boost is a rush for sure, and I'm sure I could have cars that were boosted and enjoy them, but the immediacy and sound of an NA motor is hard to beat.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:14 AM
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I heard a 718 take off from a light a few months ago. You know what is sounded like? ASS. 4 banger, fart can, ass.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:55 AM
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I am a 60yo..... drive an X5d. I would love a new Panamera Sport Turisimo. Regardless of how I feel about classic Porsche.
Old 08-12-2017, 11:55 AM
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