Friend with anxiety attacks

[kach22i]

A friend of mine went to the hospital twice last week, said he thought he was going to die.

They upped his dosage of meds that he has been on, told me he doesn't like being on them.

I shared my story of walking home from work in 2008 and a block away from home the pressure built up and I thought I was having a heart attack, felt like I was on the bottom of the ocean. In that same month I recall my heart racing for no reason and out of control and suffering occasional nose bleeds.

My solution wasn't drugs, it was getting off drugs - namely caffeine America's most popular additive drug if you don't count sugar.

Caffeine in headache medicine, caffeine in coffee, it seemed to be in more things than not.

I knocked out the three or four cups of coffee a day, down to 1/2 cup in the morning.

I also changed my diet and began exercising resulting in release of some healthy endorphins that lower stress.

My friend is 2-3 cups a day, and cannot stop thinking about things at night, plus smokes three cigars a day. One cigar in the morning, one at mid-day, and one in the evening.

I told him about melatonin as a sleeping aid, he's tried it before.

He works long hours in sales, and doesn't exercise mostly because of an injured shoulder years ago in martial arts. I suggested a morning walk with some arm rolling exercises thrown in.

Coffee
Exercise
Sleep aids
Healthier diet
Cigars
He does not drink booze - used to too much

The biggest thing I see is the cigars. Cigars temporally relax you, but I think there is a slingshot effect where stress is merely delayed only to come back even harder and more compressed. Like the stress is diverted and stored, only to explode at the least opportune and unexpected moment.

I mentioned mediation and yoga to him, two things I have not tried but have read about. I don't see him getting into theses things anymore than I would.

I told him how I lowered my cigar intake, I use the same 80/20 rule as for my diet. Good boy 80% of the time, and indulged 20% of the time. Cigars are only for weekends now, I smoke my pipe during the week which is about 1/4 the nicotine by my best guess.

Here is the rub, none of the doctors he's seen have mentioned exercise, getting off caffeine and stop smoking so many cigars.............they just seem to want him to take more prescription drugs.

He claims that he's told all of his doctors about the no exercise, the coffee and the 3-cigars a day but they don't bat an eye over it.

Maybe they assume most patients are not going to change, so they take they shortest route - drugs?

I've read that 1 out of four or so Americans are on some kind of anxiety medicine, are we that stressed out or are we being pushed prescription drugs?

What are the alternatives?

I took my own route, but that may not be for everyone including my friend. It takes a lot of work, time and discipline to do what I did. And it didn't happen over night.

[berettafan]

so, so worrisome that the docs aren't pushing the actual cure but rather treatments.

[Crowbob]

I'm thinking your friend is not telling his docs the truth about his lifestyle or not telling you the truth about their advice to him.

[kach22i]

I found this article below, it supports my own personal experience that cigars relax you, but stress may come back later.

Neurobiological Effects of Smoking Tobacco
Neurological Effects of Nicotine, Tobacco, and Particulate Matter - Neuropathology of Drug Addictions and Substance Misuse - Chapter 11

Tobacco is an addictive substance that produces both rewarding and negative effects, a combination of which ultimately leads to tobacco use, relapse, and dependence. The positive reinforcing effects of tobacco are involved in the initiation stage of dependence and include mild euphoria, increased memory, and relaxation, while the negative effects of smoking are associated with cessation or withdrawal and include depressed mood, anxiety, and impaired memory (see Wise, 1996*; *Wise and Koob, 2014, for review). Like all drugs of abuse, nicotine, cigarettes, and tobacco products affect the mesocorticolimbic reward pathway, the major pathway in the brain for reward and reinforcement for addictive drugs as well as natural rewarding stimuli (Volkow, Fowler, Wang, Swanson, & Telang, 2007). This pathway comprises cell bodies in the ventral tegmental area (VTA) and their projections to the nucleus accumbens (nAcb) and prefrontal cortex (PFC) (Figure 1). Central to the classical neurobiological model of addiction is the release of dopamine (DA) in the nAcb following stimulation of this pathway, which is associated with reward, reinforcement, and the initiation of drug abuse (Volkow et*al., 2007). Both nicotine and tobacco smoke induce increases in DA levels in the nAcb through the binding of nicotine to nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs) in the VTA. Persistent smoking, like with other drugs of abuse, leads to tolerance and withdrawal after cessation. Both the positive hedonic effects and the avoidance of negative withdrawal effects contribute to tobacco dependence. With repeated use, the positive reinforcing effects become reduced and the mechanisms involving negative reinforcement increase. There is also evidence for neuroadaptive changes occurring with a switch from ventral striatal (nAcb) to dorsal striatal centers linked to a loss of control of drug use. Human smokers also have reduced DA function and reduced DA transporter availability compared to nonsmokers. For a review of neuroadaptive changes in human smokers see Martin-Soelch (2013).

Part of the problem I see with many studies is that they concentrate of cigarettes that have many added chemicals, and not natural cigars.

I have read that unless a cigar is labeled "organic" one should not assume it to be additive free.

The largest most encompassing study ever done was in the late 1960's-early-1970's, and the mortality rate of up to five cigars a day smokers was the same as the general population.

That does not mean there are not other negative affects, just that they don't kill you right away.

The legacy of prescription drugs isn't any worse than that of cigars in my opinion.

I'd still take a cigar over most pills handed out like candy at a doctor's office.

[Ziggythecat]

Originally Posted by kach22i

I found this article below, it supports my own personal experience that cigars relax you, but stress may come back later.

[
The largest most encompassing study ever done was in the late 1960's-early-1970's, and the mortality rate of up to five cigars a day smokers was the same as the general population.

I'd wonder a bit about that one.
Back then, 9 out of 10 doctors preferred what ? Camels ?
Not a cough in the whole carton, was the claim.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

I'd wonder a bit about that one.
Back then, 9 out of 10 doctors preferred what ? Camels ?
Not a cough in the whole carton, was the claim.

Well, back then more people smoked, and thereby assumedly lowering the average mortality rate.

Second catch could be advancements in medicine extending lifespans.

I mean back then nearly everyone just died early, so the difference between cigar smokers and everyone else was perhaps minimalized or marginalized.

From what I know of longevity, wealth and using your mind to a ripe old age kept you alive 200-300 years ago, and still does to this day.

The highly stressed underpaid working yourself to an early grave types never stood much of a chance.

Intellectuals always seemed to live longer throughout history, that is unless they pissed off the wrong government.

Where this all goes back to tobacco, American's first cash crop, the crop that built America is that the pipe and cigar have been around us for a long time. And way back then it was the luxury item of the well to do, not the vice of the poor.

What ever differences in mortality tobacco made 200-300 years ago, was wiped out by the strains of poverty. In the late 1960's- early 1970's it was probably leveled out and equalized. And now a days, I imagine other factors such as inactivity and obesity are literally going to outweigh the negative affects of pipes and cigars.

I'm leaving out cigarettes because they have poisons added to them, and I do not care to defend that in any way.

[varmint]

Dated a bi polar girl in college. She took her required medications, but had what I guess you'd now call life hacks to deal with the swings from one state to the other.

Exercise
Changes to her sleep schedule
Cigarettes
Sex
Lots of sex
Old sad movies or comedies depending

All of these things affected mood/brain chemistry.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by varmint

Dated a bi polar girl in college. She took her required medications, but had what I guess you'd now call life hacks to deal with the swings from one state to the other.

Exercise
Changes to her sleep schedule
Cigarettes
Sex
Lots of sex
Old sad movies or comedies depending

All of these things affected mood/brain chemistry.

I think all those things affect mood and brain chemistry, but she was perhaps more technicolor about it all?

My friend is an empathic person, at least he told the story of being tested on several things and that one area was pronounced.

I think empathic people feel the pain of the world.

He's a pretty mellow fellow, has a silly grin most of the time but I imagine there are a few demons behind the façade.

I don't think there is one sure fire treatment for everyone, and that is the problem with drugs. Drugs drape everyone with the same net. No fish gets out, no matter how good of a swimmer.

[svandamme]

yeah well been there done that.
first case of panic attack went live on this board , did not know what hit me, just had chest pains.
turns out i was hyperventilating.. And till that day i always thought that was just something for schoolgirls cause that's where i saw it , on tv.. with me saying 'breathe normal you stupid cow"

anyway, i've learned to catch em before they happen now.
exercise and taking it a bit easier on my self.. learned to manage work & stress in a better way..

[DanielDudley]

Anxiety attacks are a feedback loop. The more you freak out, the more it freaks you out.

I had anxiety attacks when I got divorced. Once I figured out that I was making them happen by focusing on them, I learned how to stop the escalation. I'm not saying that the other things aren't contributing to the problem, I'm just saying that they are not the primary cause.

[legion]

Reducing or eliminating caffeine certainly will help.

I exercise regularly by running and weight lifting, but the thing that helps my stress levels the most are taking daily walks. I try to walk 5 miles a day. It's not just the exercise, but the dedicated time to think and work through the issues of the day. Even when I was hyper-stressed out when I lived in Atlanta and working for an @$$hole boss, I used my walks to formulate a plan (and contingency plans) to escape.

I had a pretty chaotic childhood and used to take my dog for 1-2 hour walks just to get out of the house. Over time, I started using the time not just as an escape but to figure out what things I had control over that I could use to make things better.

I have had one panic attack in my life, but I eventually traced it to a medication I was on at the time (a steroid for inflammation with a stimulant side-effect). I'm not high-strung, so it was a weird experience for me. After the attack passed, I started thinking about why it happened. I was stressed out about not having clear direction about something at work. I thought to myself: "This isn't like you. You're apathetic. You don't care. Cleary something else is the cause." I stopped taking the medication and felt normal the next day.

[Charles Freeborn]

Western medicine is much more about treating symptoms than causes. After a triple bypass a friend asked his doc should he change anything...only suggestion was go easier on salt... never mind the luxurious cheeses, prosciutto and other food delights he had an affinity for....
Your advice to your friend is spot on. Exercise, diet, less caffeine (we mix our beans ½ decaf ½ regular) and how about substituting Canibis for Cigars?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scottmandue]

I don't have panic attacks (at lease I don't think so) but I do have sleepless nights worrying about... you name it... job, house, finances, etc.

Like legion said going for walks in nature to decompress and sort through your thoughts helps a lot.

I stopped coffee for a while and oh boy did it kick my butt! I'm only a morning coffee person and unfortunately picked it back up... I should look into cutting back.

Cigars were a guilty pleasure but only a couple times a month, I quit for a couple years and now and if I try even a small cigar the nicotine hits me like a freight train. The prices are getting up there too so I don't miss it much.

[rusnak]

I chain smoke cigars, pop vitamin B-12, and drink Diet Pepsi all day. I think it helps that I'm on my feet and working almost constantly, and put in 90 hr work weeks, because I sleep like a baby.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Anxiety attacks are a feedback loop. The more you freak out, the more it freaks you out.

+1 on that.
Mrs WD had anxiety attacks and things that mitigated them was not turning in on herself and not getting caught in the feedback loop. She used to isolate herself (out of embarrassment I think) and not call anyone until she was in crisis. She learned to kind of stand outside herself and tell herself, "Oh, looks like you're having an event. It's happened before, it'll happen again. Now, what was is it you were doing again?

[Tidybuoy]

Have you friend Google "benefits of Magnesium". Most Americans are defecient and this is a calming mineral. Best absorbed topically (i.e., magnesium crystals in bath (not epsom salts), or magnesium oil applied oto skin.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Have you asked your friend what has been on his mind lately?

Work stress?
Relationship stress?
Child starting school stress?
Stress about impending health related issues?
Family/caregiver stress about parents?
oh yeah....
WWIII Thermonuclear war stress?

These things all crossed my mind today in one form or another. Three were on the forefront. Three I had to put on the backburner. The S#$t can add up quick
It's "weekend wOrrier for a reason.

[scottmandue]

No affiliation, stumbled on this link while chasing some health related item,

https://neurostar.com/

[pavulon]

I once heard that anxiety is bad feelings about things that have not and might not happen. Depression is bad feelings about things in the past. Each is a side of the same coin and the present can only be found on the small area of the edge but is the only place to be if you want to roll.

[aigel]

Sorry man, but there are millions of people out there smoking, drinking coffee and having no exercise that have zero issues with anxiety.

I do agree that exercise helps a lot with mental health, IMHO that should be his focus. A bad shoulder is a lame excuse to not exercise. There are intact legs on that guy.

Good luck getting him to change!

G