Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Miscellaneous and Off Topic Forums > Off Topic Discussions


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 1.00 average.
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North of You
Posts: 5,862
That is fine. Last step might be a laser thermometer...just to see if anything is too hot.
__________________
"A machine you build yourself is a vote for a different way of life. There are things you have to earn with your hands."
Old 09-07-2017, 11:20 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Shaun @ Tru6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 33,214
I've got a nice Fluke laser thermo.

Can you recommend a good breaker? I want to change that in the near term. It has been working fine since cleaning.
__________________
Tru6 Restoration & Design
Old 09-07-2017, 11:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
Brew Master
 
cabmando's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Delphos Ohio
Posts: 9,934
Garage
I think that breaker can be swapped with Murray and Square D HOM but I'd bring the original with you if you can to compare.
Old 09-07-2017, 12:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #63 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Shaun @ Tru6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 33,214
OK, I now officially need a licensed electrician.

September through today was pretty much bliss. Everything worked. What I found was there was a lot of corrosion between the center breaker blade and the pole coming from the meter. I pulled the sheet metal screw out and sanded the back of the blade and the face of the pole, cleaned the screw, applied Noalox and put it all back together.

Yesterday there an explosion of some sort down the street and all the e- on our street went out. Came back one after the e- company repaired it.

But now my center pole is gone again and even worse, look what has happened to it. Just took a pic now.

How does that happen? What happened? Inside breakers on this pole are for wall plugs and lights in storage rooms.

Other two poles are fine. I wonder if this is what happened to my microwave.









__________________
Tru6 Restoration & Design
Old 12-08-2017, 10:21 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #64 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North of You
Posts: 5,862
Bad connection = heat. A lot of heat. Marginal design...****ty material...old age. (Just like me).

You need a better connection and some NoAlox. I hope that's what I see on the blade connection.

Actually, you need a new box and breaker.
__________________
"A machine you build yourself is a vote for a different way of life. There are things you have to earn with your hands."
Old 12-08-2017, 12:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #65 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Shaun @ Tru6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 33,214
Thanks! It is both a bad design and materials are junk. You would think there would be regulations about this sort of thing. Or you would think someone making a breaker box would only want to use the highest quality components.

I had cleaned in between the two with sandpaper and a can of brake cleaner. Noalox slathered in between and then put in and tightened the screw.

Yes, there's Noalox at the blade connection but as you can see in the center it's been burned away.

WTF?

Very frustrating.
__________________
Tru6 Restoration & Design
Old 12-08-2017, 12:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #66 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Shaun @ Tru6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 33,214
I'll take it apart on Sunday.

Why don't you get electrocuted while removing the screw? Does the handle not conduct e-? If you touched the blade with your hand, would you get electrocuted then? The sandpaper I used to sand it was velcro backed and stiff so easy to slide in between without actually touching anything directly.
__________________
Tru6 Restoration & Design
Old 12-08-2017, 12:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #67 (permalink)
Registered User
 
enzo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: OK
Posts: 12,734
Get a PRO to do it...
__________________
76' 911s Signature Edition
Old 12-08-2017, 12:38 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #68 (permalink)
Registered User
 
MBAtarga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Lawrenceville GA 30045
Posts: 4,477
^ +1

It will likely end up costing you close to four figures in labor and parts - but that is what is needed and the ONLY way I see this issue getting resolved.

Edit - and yes - you can get electrocuted if you touch those internal metal tabs - either by hand/finger or tool!
__________________
Mark

'06 911 S Aerokit - since 5/2/2016
'83 SC Targa - since 5/5/2001
Old 12-08-2017, 01:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #69 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 100
Certainly seems like 120/208 3-phase. 120V from any one of the 3 "hot" legs to neutral, and 208V 1-phase between any 2 "hot" legs. 208V 3-phase when you use all 3 "hot" legs.

I would ask why there's even a circuit breaker outside. Around here (WI) the power company service would connect directly to the line side of the meter socket. The load side of the meter socket would feed a main breaker in a distribution panel inside the building. Even with 2 meters, there wouldn't be any circuit breakers outside.

You're crazy to be messing around with those bus bars while they're energized.
Old 12-08-2017, 01:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #70 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North of You
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
I'll take it apart on Sunday.

Why don't you get electrocuted while removing the screw? Does the handle not conduct e-? If you touched the blade with your hand, would you get electrocuted then? The sandpaper I used to sand it was velcro backed and stiff so easy to slide in between without actually touching anything directly.
Since you asked this question I have to answer: If you don't know the answer you shouldn't be doing it....

But yes, the handle is the insulator. (It's a very good insulator, a plastic handle saved my life once on a live 600 volt line). If you were to touch a live conductor and if your feet were 'grounded' (or a hand leaning on the box) your body would be the conductor and you might die.

It appears that after your repair you did not have enough surface area in contact on the middle phase. If it were clean and a bigger area your repair might have worked. But look at the conductor size (copper) versus the aluminum area you repaired. And note that Noalox is not a good conductor, it just prevents oxidation. A small area of aluminum carrying 100 Amps won't last.

Replacing the three flat conductors with new aluminum (or copper and NoAlox) would work, but it is likely against code.

Replace it all. And be careful. It is unlikely to kill you. But it could.
__________________
"A machine you build yourself is a vote for a different way of life. There are things you have to earn with your hands."

Last edited by 1990C4S; 12-09-2017 at 06:07 AM..
Old 12-09-2017, 06:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #71 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 943
Garage
The first two responses to this thread identified your problem.

Hire a pro and replace the whole system.
__________________
Chris
the more i learn, the less i know
Old 12-09-2017, 06:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #72 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Back in Boston
Posts: 226
Garage
Please "call the man".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa1ez7yL_T4
__________________
I got nothin'
Old 12-09-2017, 06:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #73 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Shaun @ Tru6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 33,214
Thanks, I stand on a palette when working on it. Also I wrapped the screwdriver with EPDM; thought that a direct connection would kill me good. It's snowing today so not going to touch it until tomorrow. I may end up making a copper blade for the center.

I agree, I don't understand who would make such a crappy box given the surface area and quality of materials.
__________________
Tru6 Restoration & Design
Old 12-09-2017, 06:19 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #74 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North of You
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
Thanks, I stand on a palette when working on it. Also I wrapped the screwdriver with EPDM; thought that a direct connection would kill me good. It's snowing today so not going to touch it until tomorrow. I may end up making a copper blade for the center.

I agree, I don't understand who would make such a crappy box given the surface area and quality of materials.
A pallet is a good idea, as are leather gloves and sleeves. The right thing to do is turn the incoming power off. Maybe when you replace the breaker you can install a disconnect switch upstream, if that's allowed.

Why is it so cheap? Because people like me go to HD and grab the cheapest 100 Amp breaker box on the shelf. Every penny saved counts. It's the norm now. Walmart, HD, Amazon. Doing things the best way is a rarity.

The box meets the minimum spec. Indoors it might last 50 years, outdoors probably five to ten. Make sure it has some extra rain protection when you're done.
__________________
"A machine you build yourself is a vote for a different way of life. There are things you have to earn with your hands."
Old 12-09-2017, 06:25 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #75 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Shaun @ Tru6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 33,214
I do where leather gloves too.

I'm an opposite end of the spectrum kind of person. If a customer's part isn't as good as it can be when I'm done, I redo it on my dime.
__________________
Tru6 Restoration & Design
Old 12-09-2017, 06:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #76 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 18,420
Let me be the one-millionth customer to tell you to replace the whole mess.

When doing so, I will suggest the following:

Run the overhead service to the meter, then run the service to a disconnect, then run the service inside the building to a breaker box. Around here, the local utilities will often give you the meter cans for free, so ask around.

I would get rid of the landscaping in that area. That has been part of your problem, thus far. You have a moist little micro climate where you don't want it.
Old 12-09-2017, 06:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #77 (permalink)
Taunter of Asshats
 
dad911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: NJ and Duchy of Grand Fenwick
Posts: 8,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 View Post
Thanks, I stand on a palette when working on it. Also I wrapped the screwdriver with EPDM; thought that a direct connection would kill me good. It's snowing today so not going to touch it until tomorrow. I may end up making a copper blade for the center.

I agree, I don't understand who would make such a crappy box given the surface area and quality of materials.
I would not swap in a homemade copper blade. Use parts made for that system, or swap whole box.

Can you buy the same box? If so probably less than $100. Have an electrician swap the guts.......

Don't work on it live. I have no problem swapping switches/receptacles hot, and swapping breakers, but I'm nuts and even I wouldn't wire that hot.
__________________
"Politicians are a lot like diapers. They should be changed frequently, and for the same reasons." Robin Williams-Man Of The Year

#red-beard2020
Old 12-09-2017, 06:35 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #78 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 943
Garage
Back in January of 2014 the problem was identified for you.

You want the cheap way out, everyone knows that is the more expensive option.

Hire someone that knows what they are doing, you've already negated any fire insurance you might have had.
__________________
Chris
the more i learn, the less i know
Old 12-09-2017, 06:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #79 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Shaun @ Tru6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 33,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by dad911 View Post
I would not swap in a homemade copper blade. Use parts made for that system, or swap whole box.

Can you buy the same box? If so probably less than $100. Have an electrician swap the guts.......

Don't work on it live. I have no problem swapping switches/receptacles hot, and swapping breakers, but I'm nuts and even I wouldn't wire that hot.
I'm going to get some quotes. I am sure I can make better blades for all three than I can buy.

My problem with paying people to do things is the work is never up to my standards. My chrome shop fired me once because I am pickier than Paul Russell doing $20M Ferrari work.
__________________
Tru6 Restoration & Design
Old 12-09-2017, 07:05 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #80 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:42 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.