Friend with anxiety attacks

[RKDinOKC]

Was on a bunch of med when I was younger for managing anxiety and stress. Started building and flying Radio Controlled Airplanes. Know it sounds kind of silly, but it takes a lot of concentration to keep ahead of the plane flying. The concentration alone cause an adrenaline rush and cleaned my mind conscious and subconscious of the issues that bothered me. Ended up getting taken off all the meds.

A few years later I got a 944 Turbo and started autocrossing it. The concentration of driving "in the zone" at the limits of the vehicle gave me the same rush, only a little more because of being physically present in the car control and to make a mistake is more costly.

Was forced to stop autocrossing 5 years ago. Stepped on a nail, had major complication, and now can no longer heel and toe. Need to find someting the replace autocrossing. Some of things going on at work are starting to bother me.

[kach22i]

I had a meeting tonight with some of my clients, a married couple that puts up a haunted house once a year. They design the layout, I make sure it is up to code. Same spot as last year, in a strip mall.

They described how building the set is so much fun because it is physical. And screaming at people to scare them is therapy in its own way.

Maybe this is why kids are so carefree, they are always running around and screaming.

Keeping it all in as an adult is self destructive perhaps.

Come to think of it, there is a rush when cheering on a sports team or at a concert venue.

Isn't there something called scream therapy?

[sc_rufctr]

I have personal experience with this issue.

There really isn't a lot YOU can do. The person with anxiety has to take control of their life.
That means taking the prescribed medication and attending counseling. Even then some of them don't do very well.

Have you seen Silver Linings Play book? Bradley Cooper's character has "Bipolar disorder" but he does an exceptional job of depicting anxiety.
It really is like that.

[Evans, Marv]

"Each is a side of the same coin and the present can only be found on the small area of the edge but is the only place to be if you want to roll". That is such a cool saying, pavulon.

[stealthn]

I like to think it's mind over matter, very little things really stress me out but I do yell at stupid drivers, get upset with the kids, feel anxious about trips, but the bigger picture stuff I can mentally relax myself. Your mind controls your body, so you have to be in tune with it. This includes eating exercising, and laughing at things. I find kayaking the most calming thing in life, for mind and body.
But everyone is different.

[Crowbob]

To me 'mind over matter' implies there is some kind of intellectual process that can defeat a physical reality, which is absurd.

However, applying rational observation of reality can mitigate the irrational response of the anxiety in panic attacks. But it takes allot of discipline. A really, really lot of it.

For example, say you get a flat tire at night in the rain when it's 50 degrees and windy. Kneeling on the ground struggling with the spare in such a circumstance is unpleasant but not fatal. It may seem like it's fatal but applying reasonable assessment and observation, such as knowing limited exposure to 50 degree rain and wind at night, with immediate access to shelter (i.e, getting back into the car when your hands feel like they're frozen) is not likely fatal. You'll get through it.

One time, way back in college at the end of finals week, I was absolutely convinced I wouldn't make it back to the dorm after taking an exam at night in similar circumstances as my flat-tire analogy above. I could see the building, I knew I was walking and freezing. One step at a time, keep walking, keep walking. Don't panic! Of course, I made it and practically passed out from exhaustion.

The point is that reason, discipline and focus can defeat an irrational panic attack. But it is not easy.

[impactbumper]

Commission based sales job will do that. Look into what bothers him the most in his life. Root of the problem. Till that issue is taken care of he is backtracking with all other accessory approaches.


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[Rickysa]

The point is that reason, discipline and focus can defeat an irrational panic attack. But it is not easy.

Very true, CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) can be effective in many patients....but not all.

For some, it's brain chemistry...and like a diabetic needs insulin, some anxiety patients need SSRIs.

[M.D. Holloway]

Anxiety attacks are horrible. I suffer(ed) from them especially when I flew. I tried medication (Xanax - hated it) as well as self-medicating with booze (not a good idea). I don't smoke, get exercise and have a normal diet. I was able to control them to the point they no longer occur using meditation. I know it sounds flakey but it worked for me. Nothing difficult actually. Just focus on breathing and every time an image or thought entered my mind I would push it out and replace it with the image of a number - either a '1' then a '2' - 2 seconds breath in, 2 seconds exhale. I found that it only took a few minutes to calm down. I also use the same technique in meetings when I can feel that my blood begins to boil due to stupidity! The past several years the Wife and kids have commented that I am more chill. (Maybe I should do it when I read PPOT!).

The meds are a last resort.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

Western medicine is much more about treating symptoms than causes. After a triple bypass a friend asked his doc should he change anything...only suggestion was go easier on salt... never mind the luxurious cheeses, prosciutto and other food delights he had an affinity for....
Your advice to your friend is spot on. Exercise, diet, less caffeine (we mix our beans ½ decaf ½ regular) and how about substituting Canibis for Cigars?


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Cheese and Prosciutto is Salt by another name.

Salt retains water which drives Blood Pressure.

Caffeine drives Blood Pressure....it take 3 to 4 days of abstinence from Coffee to drop my Blood Pressure...

Sugar in Carbohydrates drives Blood sugar...

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

To me 'mind over matter' implies there is some kind of intellectual process that can defeat a physical reality, which is absurd.

However, applying rational observation of reality can mitigate the irrational response of the anxiety in panic attacks. But it takes allot of discipline. A really, really lot of it.

For example, say you get a flat tire at night in the rain when it's 50 degrees and windy. Kneeling on the ground struggling with the spare in such a circumstance is unpleasant but not fatal. It may seem like it's fatal but applying reasonable assessment and observation, such as knowing limited exposure to 50 degree rain and wind at night, with immediate access to shelter (i.e, getting back into the car when your hands feel like they're frozen) is not likely fatal. You'll get through it.

One time, way back in college at the end of finals week, I was absolutely convinced I wouldn't make it back to the dorm after taking an exam at night in similar circumstances as my flat-tire analogy above. I could see the building, I knew I was walking and freezing. One step at a time, keep walking, keep walking. Don't panic! Of course, I made it and practically passed out from exhaustion.

The point is that reason, discipline and focus can defeat an irrational panic attack. But it is not easy.

The he11 you say...

Maybe presence of mind, kind of like puttin in the clutch to disengage the Tranny.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by berettafan

so, so worrisome that the docs aren't pushing the actual cure but rather treatments.

Insurance companies offer a few sessions of CBT to get a diagnosis and then it is MED time which is cheaper. So they are not interested in a real fix but to just paper over the problem as cheaply as possible...Meanwhile you get the side effects of the drugs and remain as fked up as ever.

Drugs change brain chemistry and eventually it changes brain wiring. So take you off the meds and boy oh boy there is no telling what is gona happen.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Rickysa

Very true, CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) can be effective in many patients....but not all.

For some, it's brain chemistry...and like a diabetic needs insulin, some anxiety patients need SSRIs.

Depends on whether you believe in the efficacy of the CBT. It also depends on just how serious you are.

CBT is not like applying a salve as a remedy and having the boo boo go away by itself. It is a tool in the process of self discovery. Untying the knots in your head. For many it is an aid (help) in getting through a crisis.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by kach22i

A friend of mine went to the hospital twice last week, said he thought he was going to die.

They upped his dosage of meds that he has been on, told me he doesn't like being on them.

I shared my story of walking home from work in 2008 and a block away from home the pressure built up and I thought I was having a heart attack, felt like I was on the bottom of the ocean. In that same month I recall my heart racing for no reason and out of control and suffering occasional nose bleeds.

My solution wasn't drugs, it was getting off drugs - namely caffeine America's most popular additive drug if you don't count sugar.

Caffeine in headache medicine, caffeine in coffee, it seemed to be in more things than not.

I knocked out the three or four cups of coffee a day, down to 1/2 cup in the morning.

I also changed my diet and began exercising resulting in release of some healthy endorphins that lower stress.

My friend is 2-3 cups a day, and cannot stop thinking about things at night, plus smokes three cigars a day. One cigar in the morning, one at mid-day, and one in the evening.

I told him about melatonin as a sleeping aid, he's tried it before.

He works long hours in sales, and doesn't exercise mostly because of an injured shoulder years ago in martial arts. I suggested a morning walk with some arm rolling exercises thrown in.

Coffee
Exercise
Sleep aids
Healthier diet
Cigars
He does not drink booze - used to too much

The biggest thing I see is the cigars. Cigars temporally relax you, but I think there is a slingshot effect where stress is merely delayed only to come back even harder and more compressed. Like the stress is diverted and stored, only to explode at the least opportune and unexpected moment.

I mentioned mediation and yoga to him, two things I have not tried but have read about. I don't see him getting into theses things anymore than I would.

I told him how I lowered my cigar intake, I use the same 80/20 rule as for my diet. Good boy 80% of the time, and indulged 20% of the time. Cigars are only for weekends now, I smoke my pipe during the week which is about 1/4 the nicotine by my best guess.

Here is the rub, none of the doctors he's seen have mentioned exercise, getting off caffeine and stop smoking so many cigars.............they just seem to want him to take more prescription drugs.

He claims that he's told all of his doctors about the no exercise, the coffee and the 3-cigars a day but they don't bat an eye over it.

Maybe they assume most patients are not going to change, so they take they shortest route - drugs?

I've read that 1 out of four or so Americans are on some kind of anxiety medicine, are we that stressed out or are we being pushed prescription drugs?

What are the alternatives?

I took my own route, but that may not be for everyone including my friend. It takes a lot of work, time and discipline to do what I did. And it didn't happen over night.

You really are clueless..

If you correlate caffeine with an anxiety attacks you are out to lunch. Caffeine is a stimulant that has a physical reaction on your body. An anxiety attack is an emotional state of feeling panic. Usually a state of feeling that you have no way out of an intolerable state of affairs. One where you feel locked (trapped) into a construct of your own making...you don't see any other options than what you are currently doing.

But do not feel so all alone, every response so far in this Thread has shown just how little awareness you all have of your own emotional motivations. You really are flying blind and that causes your perceptions in other areas to be skewed..... being off center. You might say you distort reality to fit your own narratives (story) to make sense of what is happening.

Most of you get the sentiment right, the facts but it is the conclusions (interpretation) as to causation and outcomes that are fked up. You can not see beyond the veil to see it as it is. Quite frankly that is how bad mistakes are made and wars are started.

This stuff is like Tinker Toys BOyz...

Insert part A into part B and you get C.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Rickysa

Very true, CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) can be effective in many patients....but not all.

For some, it's brain chemistry...and like a diabetic needs insulin, some anxiety patients need SSRIs.

are there cases where it is not?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by tabs

You really are clueless..

If you correlate caffeine with an anxiety attacks you are out to lunch. Caffeine is a stimulant that has a physical reaction on your body. An anxiety attack is an emotional state of feeling panic.

An anxiety attack is an emotional state of feeling panic, which is accompanied by a physical reaction in your body. They go hand in hand and the experience of the physical symptoms for whatever reason can trigger a full blown attack. So no, he is not out to lunch.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

Western medicine is much more about treating symptoms than causes. After a triple bypass a friend asked his doc should he change anything...only suggestion was go easier on salt... never mind the luxurious cheeses, prosciutto and other food delights he had an affinity for....

I wouldn't blame the doc for this. He probably assumed your friend was a normally informed adult who understood that prepared foods almost always have salt in them. People have to take SOME responsibility for their health, which includes informing themselves about basic nutrition.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

An anxiety attack is an emotional state of feeling panic, which is accompanied by a physical reaction in your body. They go hand in hand and the experience of the physical symptoms for whatever reason can trigger a full blown attack. So no, he is not out to lunch.

Feeling fear is an emotional state..a mental state, feeling the jitters do to Caffeine is physical.

Now if you take let us say Niacin which dilates the blood vessels, you start to feel flushed and itchy. Your emotional reaction maybe that I can't stand this and I can not get away from this feeling (you feel trapped) and panicky ...then you might have the presence of mind to think..geez this is not going to last forever and I can weather the storm.

Your panic is your emotional inability or response in being able to deal with the effects of what you ingested or in your situation.

You are equating your emotional response of fear with a physical one. Your adrenaline boost can stimulate your body (BP) which then can cause you to FEEL (which is an emotional state) even more fear that something is going to blow up. Butat the end of the day panic is an emotional state. It is how you are dealing with your situation. Remember fight or flight.

Now you see your interpretation is just a little short sighted in your delineations. You lack the thinking through... A + B = ??????

[Rickysa]

Depends on whether you believe in the efficacy of the CBT. It also depends on just how serious you are.

I agree with the first statement, and firmly disagree with the second.

CBT is certainly effective in many cases. While I know I am a sample of n=1, I tried it for a solid year with a back-up emergency med if things went south, only to suffer "should I take the med, can I get through this without". Finally I'd had enough and went to a pdoc and started meds.

are there cases where it (CBE) is not?

Yep, lots. That's why I'm so open to discuss it. Big stigma associated (at least it was with me) with having a screw loose and needing to see a pdoc. Leads to a whole bunch of suffering, and can even progress to depression/agoraphobia.

Panic attacks, living with severe anxiety is all-consuming...sucks bigtime.

Your panic is your emotional inability or response in being unable to deal with the effects of what you ingested or in your situation

Your body goes from zero to "fight of flight" mode in a nanosecond...and you cannot do either.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Rickysa

I agree with the first statement, and firmly disagree with the second.

CBT is certainly effective in many cases. While I know I am a sample of n=1, I tried it for a solid year with a back-up emergency med if things went south, only to suffer "should I take the med, can I get through this without". Finally I'd had enough and went to a pdoc and started meds.




Yep, lots. That's why I'm so open to discuss it. Big stigma associated (at least it was with me) with having a screw loose and needing to see a pdoc. Leads to a whole bunch of suffering, and can even progress to depression/agoraphobia.

Panic attacks, living with severe anxiety is all-consuming...sucks bigtime.




Your body goes from zero to "fight of flight" mode in a nanosecond...and you cannot do either.

A WHOLE SOLID YEAR....

SOUNDS LIKE you expect instant gratification....MAYBE it is because you have been watching toooo much TV where ALL situations are resolved in the ONE HOUR format.

So now let us be serious...if you want to change you have to put the time on the table...for SERIOUS CHANGE it takes about SEVEN YEARS. Or another way to put it is you have to keep at it until YOU start to deal with things differently. It does happen.

And son we ALL have loose screws...