Looming Pilot Shortage

[KNS]

This will impact a lot of the traveling public as flights are reduced and routes are eliminated. Some smaller cities will lose service. Boeing (currently studying pilotless aircraft) and Airbus will lose orders for aircraft as the airlines have less need for planes they can't staff.

The U.S. will face a staggering shortage of pilots - Jul. 27, 2017

Basically, right now, if you have the ratings and can fog a mirror - the airlines will hire you.

[SeanPizzle]

but for the last twenty years, they felt it was OK for them to pay regional jet pilots $25-30K a year???

[RKDinOKC]

hmmmm. in 1991 visited a well know airlines scheduling and control facility. Was told they could control any or all of their planes remotely from that center and in fact had made several pilotless cargo flights. Also said they feared they would have zero passengers if passengers ever found there was no on-board pilot despite the fact that pilots mostly only took control when taxiing.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by SeanPizzle

but for the last twenty years, they felt it was OK for them to pay regional jet pilots $25-30K a year???

And many years of living in towns you have never heard of being paid minimum wage flying agricultural planes before they get a real job with an airline.

[911_Dude]

There has been a looming pilot shortage for at least 25 years. At least people keep saying there is anyway.

[rattlsnak]

Been hearing this for years.. There is no shortage of pilots at the legacy level. Each of them have over 10,000 applications on file. The problem is at the regional level and they can all kiss my a$$. They did it to themselves. When I started, you had to pay for your own type rating (@$25k) to get a job that worked you like a dog to get paid less than $18K a year that you spent over $100K in flight training to qualify for. I could go on and on....

[avi8torny]

A buddy of mine who was a Helo pilot in the Army just got into a program with Envoy Airlines (part of the American Airlines group) who are paying for his airplane ratings and then will hire him when he is done. There are plenty of pilots out there and like Rattlsnak said, we have been hearing it for years.

[KNS]

We may have been hearing about a coming pilot shortage for years but something may be different these days. I'm a commercial helicopter pilot and I have had more than few airline pilots tell me lately to get all my fixed wing add-on ratings and please call them - they are desperate. In all my years of flying that never came up in the past. As a rotor guy I didn't really care.

I heard another story the other day that Delta hired a guy who was 60(!) for a first officer position. They told him he would make Captain in three years. They're only going to get five years out of him before he is forced to retire. The need must have shifted to be bringing on guys in their 60s.

I suppose time will tell...

[KNS]

Originally Posted by rattlsnak

Been hearing this for years.. There is no shortage of pilots at the legacy level. Each of them have over 10,000 applications on file. The problem is at the regional level and they can all kiss my a$$. They did it to themselves. When I started, you had to pay for your own type rating (@$25k) to get a job that worked you like a dog to get paid less than $18K a year that you spent over $100K in flight training to qualify for. I could go on and on....

I do agree with you here. I think for far too long the airlines (the regionals in particular) took advantage of up and coming pilots.

[porsche4life]

If it's a serious enough problem the airlines will finally start to pony up. I'm hearing its north of 100k to get all the ratings needed to fly commercial these days. Have to really want it to plop that down knowing you will be making 30k/ year for a few years and sharing crash pads to get by.

[Tobra]

If you want to talk about looking shortages, you should be talking about doctors

[Nate2046]

Originally Posted by SeanPizzle

but for the last twenty years, they felt it was OK for them to pay regional jet pilots $25-30K a year???

$25-30k would've been a dream. My first year pay as a First Officer was right around $14k. That was for one of the largest regional airlines, just less than twenty years ago. This is all a situation that hostile management groups created. No sympathy from me, they've turned a blind eye to it for years, and now they want legislative relief

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Tobra

If you want to talk about looking shortages, you should be talking about doctors

And engineers. Kids aren't taking STEM or other more challenging programs in college anymore, at least not American kids. With looming retirements in the next decade there is going to be a huge hole to fill, and I don't know who will fill it. We already have a hard time finding good engineers, and very few of them are in their 20s or 30s.

The pilot shortage is real, but I doubt we ever see an impact to our travel schedules. The airlines are simply going to be forced to pony up and cover a portion of the expenses associated with flight school and building hours. For decades they've been able to push the responsibility off on the individuals to pay for schooling, and then use the regionals as their farm team. To entice more young pilots, they are going to need to shift that model. Think scholarships for flight school, with a planned path that has you spend X years at a regional before graduating to a full blown major airline 2nd officer gig. Removing the barrier to flight training and putting a known path to good money in place would be a great start.

[911_Dude]

While its true that a large number of retirements are coming up as well as increased hiring (US carriers), that does not mean that there is a shortage. There are a zillion applicants for every position.

[berettafan]

Having known a few pilots I too am curious how there is a shortage yet wages are abysmal.

[legion]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Having known a few pilots I too am curious how there is a shortage yet wages are abysmal.

What the regional carriers are really saying is there is a shortage of pilots willing to work for crappy wages.

[Indescikov]

The European model. They train students from the beginning to be airline pilots.
But then they end up in the middle of the South Atlantic at night unable to fly without technology.
The outcome is less than stellar.
The USA model up until now has always been the uphill model, where pilots must pay their due while building hours. Lots of potential debt with little offsetting income. Without another source of income (spouse), it is a lifestyle only the truly dedicated could survive.
The payoff is landing a slot with the majors which in the last two years have substantially upped the ante for first officers pay.
Actually, now is the best time to be looking for an aviation job in the last twenty years.
Yes, there is tremendous expensive leading to a good job. It always requires a four year degree in addition to the expensive of earning an ATP rating.
The FAA in response to the accident in Buffalo has changed the minimum entry experience for First Officers in the regionals. They now have to play by the same rules as the majors.
Just to take the ATP written exam now requires experience in a simulator (or real airplane) with weights over 42K lbs. That of course would be a lead in to "type rating" style training, similar to the training required in the airlines.
So in the last two years, things have changed.
A surge in oil prices could change the picture rapidly, as it has in the past.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by legion

What the regional carriers are really saying is there is a shortage of pilots willing to work for crappy wages.

indeed...they need to update the headline!

seems the economics of the airline industry just don't work.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by KNS

We may have been hearing about a coming pilot shortage for years but something may be different these days. I'm a commercial helicopter pilot and I have had more than few airline pilots tell me lately to get all my fixed wing add-on ratings and please call them - they are desperate. In all my years of flying that never came up in the past. As a rotor guy I didn't really care.

I heard another story the other day that Delta hired a guy who was 60(!) for a first officer position. They told him he would make Captain in three years. They're only going to get five years out of him before he is forced to retire. The need must have shifted to be bringing on guys in their 60s.

I suppose time will tell...

If they said no because of his age, they'd be violating the law.
You cannot discriminate against anyone (over 40) because of their age. It does not matter how long until retirement, just mentioning it is enough to lose a lawsuit.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by legion

What the regional carriers are really saying is there is a shortage of pilots willing to work for crappy wages.

Just like the big tech companies are saying they have a shortage of workers at the exact same time they are laying off workers.

So, how long until we get H1-B pilots?