Career Advice

[mcinturff]

A little background: I finished my master's degree in mechanical engineering last Christmas and went to work for the Department of Defense a couple months after. After 5 months of working there I decided that it just wasn't where I wanted my career to go.

They say you if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. I would like to do something automotive related. I know there are plenty of people on here who are engineers or have worked with them most of their career, so any advice on where to look would be greatly appreciated. I mostly focused on heat transfer (probably my strongest subject) and fluid mechanics for my masters, and did some mechanical dynamics work as well. I should also mention I have about 15 years under my belt turning wrenches, from 911 engine rebuilds to complete motorcycle restorations.

Thanks in advance.

[Don Ro]

First thing I thought of...
"They say you if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life.'
I have no clue about this...just a quick thought - independent Porsche eng. rebuild?
.
I have a Mech. Eng. degree from No. Dakota State Univ. Made my wealth (?) in the service industry.
I worked for 5 yrs. in Avionics for the Gov't.
Quit and got into landscape design, installation, maintenance...evolved into a Property Management business with 8 - 10 employees. 34 yrs.
Who knew?
Good Luck.

[1990C4S]

Old automotive is a cutthroat business, very little glamour. I have about 15 engineers working for me doing automation mechanical design, it is (generally) not exciting work. If that interests you the pay is pretty good.

would look to EV's or something new. Even if the products don't survive you can do something new and inventive.

[unclebilly]

In automotive, you will wind up designing a spring tensioner, not being a chief designer on a car (at least not any time soon).

I'm a mechanical engineer and my current title (since 2013) is Senior Technical Advisor. I have lead R&D projects on everything from cryogenic sealing for 2000 HP liquid nitrogen pumps to microbial influenced corrosion mitigation.

Prior to that I was a design engineer, team lead, engineering manager, product line manager... I like my current role and way less stress than dealing with a team of millennials...

[aschen]

Originally Posted by mcinturff

A little background: I finished my master's degree in mechanical engineering last Christmas and went to work for the Department of Defense a couple months after. After 5 months of working there I decided that it just wasn't where I wanted my career to go.

They say you if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life. I would like to do something automotive related. I know there are plenty of people on here who are engineers or have worked with them most of their career, so any advice on where to look would be greatly appreciated. I mostly focused on heat transfer (probably my strongest subject) and fluid mechanics for my masters, and did some mechanical dynamics work as well. I should also mention I have about 15 years under my belt turning wrenches, from 911 engine rebuilds to complete motorcycle restorations.

Thanks in advance.

I'm in houston, and my msme is in heat and mass transfer as well. Like most of us hear I am a car nut as well and always figured I would end up in that field professionally. Im not sure I have much in the way of sage advice for you, but I have been turned off by the automotive industry for the reasons listed. It seems really difficult to get into a fun aspect of the industry. That being said there are plenty of positions related to R&D for racing outfits and larger scale aftermarket. Fluid and heat transfer expertise are likely valuable skills. Have you thought about applying to Cobb tuning in austin, for example?

I ended up in oil and gas R&D. It has been an interesting field for the last 17 years. The products we design are used to failure and are subjected to absurdly harsh conditions.

[BK911]

Find a local race team and see if they need help.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

..from cryogenic sealing for 2000 HP liquid nitrogen pumps to microbial influenced corrosion mitigation.

The easy stuff

Just a bit of advice from a non-engineer who has managed hundreds of real engineers:

DoD has a really broad range of fields for engineers. I know folks that work bomb fusing technology for DoD and wouldn't do anything else since DoD is the only place (China Lake) they feel they can make a difference. They are stone-cold fuse savants.

If you are a GS employee, take a look around inside the ropes. The opportunities may surprise you.

If you are a contract employee, my advice is the same....homework first, is automotive really what you want, more homework, jump.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I would definitely try to speak to some in the industry to get the real world perspective. Just because you get into automotive, doesn't mean it will scratch the passion itch. I went into aerospace because I love aviation, and ended up with an aerospace engineering degree. At the moment I'm at an aerospace component manufacturer that pays the bills, but doesn't do anything from a passion standpoint. There's way more to it than simply picking the right industry. Some internal reflection is also in order, try to figure out the nature of work and types of roles that really make you happy.

With all that said, I totally agree with Paul regarding the DoD. Moving internally is likely way easier than starting off fresh elsewhere, and the diversity of potential roles there is staggering.

[BReif61]

The DoD has a HUGE mission for automotive testing. If it has wheels and gets painted sand or green, it gets thoroughly tested. You could work in a PM shop doing systems engineering, or do R&D at TARDEC, or do actual testing for ATEC. Like others have said, there are definite opportunities within DoD.

[David]

My dream was to be an automotive design engineer but since I didn't go to school in Michigan I started with one strike against me. Then I talked with engineering students who co-oped at auto manufacturers, heard about the cutthroat nature of the business, and didn't pursue it.

I was also a wrench before I was an engineer which I think helps immensely. I wish I could find more engineers who are.

I found my way to turbine repair. Not very glamorous but the pay is decent and instead of engines with hundreds of horsepower, I work with engines with a million horsepower.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

I'd aim for trying to find a job in a small EV/AI automotive start up company rather than a big, established automotive company.

The opportunities and scope of work will be much wider and the pace of development and variety of projects much more dynamic than any big car company or government run dept. could offer.

Not sure about the USA but in the UK at the moment there are not enough good engineers to go around so plenty of exciting automotive opportunities to be had.

The fact you are questioning what to do is a good thing, everyone is a different shaped peg and when you find the right shaped peg hole for yourself you'll know.

Good luck with whatever direction you choose

[mcinturff]

Awesome advice all around, thanks to all who have replied so far.

I had a feeling that I would hear things like "you'd be lucky to be designing a cup holder". Had no idea that the industry was as cut-throat as it is. I like the idea of working for a small company, I'll look more into that. My ideal job would have enough diversity of work to keep it interesting.
Unfortunately the job market is flooded with engineers laid off from oil and gas, a lot of whom went to Texas A&M which has one of the best alumni networks out there (the one at my school is a joke). I'm considering finding a local shop to work for while I search if nothing more than to show that I have relative experience other than my school's Formula SAE team.

I like the idea of going back for my PhD and doing research, but student loans don't pay themselves off and interest is brutal.

[Otter74]

The designing-door-release-mechanisms sorts of comments are not off the mark - it is not always like that in the auto industry, but it is very easy to find yourself in that kind of track, where your sphere of focus is very tight.

I got my BSME from Georgia Tech and moved to Detroit to go to art school to study car design. I eventually suffered a sort of life-burnout because of too many years in school and CCS was a hell of a lot more intense than GT was, and started working as an engineer (took me years to be OK with being only an engineer), doing Shainin Red X work for GM. When I left Detroit I had been at Chrysler for several years, initially doing very dry quality work and quickly moving to vehicle evaluation / problem-solving work that was fun and fulfilling. However, I was always contract, which made it almost impossible for me to move into the kind of work I really wanted to do (studio engineering & related work) or even advance very easily in the kind of work I was already doing. Then I got laid off with a pile of other people at the end of 2007, got a job in Chicago where my girlfriend was, and moved. I think it is possible to find work you'd enjoy, with variety, etc. in that industry but you have to be careful where you start and be very focused on what you want and your longer-term goal, because it is easy to, per the above, find yourself as something like a release engineer for some minor component and that's all you ever look at. I think you'd be better off in R&D or testing and development positions, which if nothing else offer more variety and more interesting work - something with a higher-level focus.

This isn't the most well-formed response, but I wanted to get something out while it was in my head.

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by BReif61

The DoD has a HUGE mission for automotive testing. If it has wheels and gets painted sand or green, it gets thoroughly tested. You could work in a PM shop doing systems engineering, or do R&D at TARDEC, or do actual testing for ATEC. Like others have said, there are definite opportunities within DoD.

And focus on your writing and your understanding of how requirements translate to the real world. Then on to writing requirements...

(DoE myself but bounce into the DoD frequently - documentation is a huge issue, and even more so in today's acquisition world. It's practically run by lawyer-neers and we need to put more technical reality into the system.)

[LWJ]

Or. You could do technical sales to the auto industry. I used to make lots of parts for big trucks. It was just a kick. Meeting with engineers and telling them what we could make, tolerances, cost, schedules. Damn. I loved that job.

I sold 17MM annually to Daimler. Prior life. Nice expense account as well!

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by mcinturff

They say you if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life.

Maybe. Just remember there is a counter to that statement that goes something like: "The quickest way to destroy a passion is by trying to make money doing it".
Then there is the notion that if you work hard and become an expert at something you might not have chosen at first, the passion will follow. Ok, enough Confucius-speak for now, lol...

Originally Posted by mcinturff

I mostly focused on heat transfer (probably my strongest subject) and fluid mechanics for my masters, and did some mechanical dynamics work as well.

Considering that (and if aerospace/defense/automotive leaves you wanting), you might look into the oil/gas exploration or mining fields.
I have some friends/family working as engineers in those fields and they make a ton of money, and are treated like kings by their employers.

Good luck!

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by Otter74

This isn't the most well-formed response, but I wanted to get something out while it was in my head.

Saved. In case anyone on Pelican needs a signature line.

[Won]

Porsche was looking for cooling system engineers recently. I don't see that job posting any more, but here is a related one for you: https://jobs.porsche.com/index.php?ac=jobad&id=7192&curPage=8. Also check here, I like those test engineer jobs with Continental: https://www.motorsportjobs.com/en/jobs/united-states

"They say you if you love what you do, you never work a day in your life." Did Confucius say that? I'm not sure, but I can relate

I think we must be around similar age. I graduated as materials engineer in late 2000's, didn't want to do the usual mining or oil/gas job in Vancouver like most. I saw enough of that industry during my co-op to know I wouldn't be happy there. So instead I worked for a racing wheel manufacturer for a few years, where some Porsche content kept me happy but eventually I wanted more. Jumped acrossed the pond to the UK, got my Master's, then a job at a composites supplier in motorsport/automotive. There was a lot of Porsche content there too, but that only made me realise I don't want to work for suppliers any more. So I joined a team competing in a world championship, my current position. There is only one move from here: to be part of a team that wins championships, and that's exactly what I will be doing in a few months, back in the UK.

I understand that not everyone is able or willing to make the big jumps like I did. In fact, all this "moving countries every few years" business makes financial planning difficult and family planning near impossible, so I don't recommend it at all. Work visa requirements also tend to make life difficult each time. But now, looking at my next planned move, I finally feel vindicated of all those crazy, risky or seemingly pointless steps I took along the way.

And that is exactly the point I want to make: I believe, that if you think you will be happy doing something you're passionate about, the only way to find out is to do it, but with reasonable planning and much effort. For me, it started with a rather vague idea that I want to work in motorsport, and the details were improved as I went along, taking steps which I believed were the best choices at the time. The progress made it easier to figure out the finer details, which to me was an indication that I'm indeed on the right track. That is not to say that everyone who started out with the same vague idea made it; at least half of my class of "master's in motorsport engineering" ended up going back to their home countries with a useless degree where their chance of finding a job in the field is basically nil. So hard work is a prerequisite, but being passionate about the subject matter does make it slightly easier (or at least palatable). Getting rich was never a goal for me, in fact I knew that I will earn peanuts and if I don't like it, one of many hundreds in line will happily take my job. Having just been back home, however, I'm happy to report that my salary is actually there or thereabouts compared to the "boring" engineering my friends are doing. So it would appear that the money can follow the passion, unless you are a starving artist of sorts. I'm glad I didn't follow the money in the beginning, because at the end of the day, I get paid to design and play with race cars and that's pretty cool.

As you know, "automotive" is a very big field. I don't know if you're in a position to take a risk of following this vague idea at this point, but it would certainly make things clearer if you can narrow down your goal as much as possible. Door latch design is not the same as quality control or body design. I agree with the Captain (whose career path I'm following, some decades behind ), I would look into EV's if you want a responsive working environment, and lucky for you, you don't have to leave the country just to find many options.

Sorry that it's long winded and too much about "me", but I really wanted to highlight that there is a reward to taking the risk and doing what you love. And if I can do it, anybody can.

PS It is very true what Eric say about the counter-statement that "The quickest way to destroy a passion is by trying to make money doing it". I'm not here to make big money, but I am now doing for a living what was once my hobby. So there is a constant risk that hobby = work and I never switch off. I have seen too many bad examples of that already in the industry, where broken marriage seems to be the norm, and being aware of and avoiding this pitfall is more important to me than my career advancement. But thankfully my hobby = work, so I don't waste any time or money any more on turning my own car into a "race car", so that helps in the relationship department. I used to have a bad case of "race car syndrome" with my 911 back home, just ask my wife

[hcoles]

Me - recently retired MSME, mechanical design, cooling and heat transfer.

Let's assume you will be or want to be an individual contributor for a period of time (5-15+ years). In addition assume you may need to move to a different country, state or city for family reasons/etc. Regardless of the industry you might be working in, you want to remain easily employable. If you look at the open ME jobs there is a trend - it is almost a requirement that you have experience with one or more "CAD" systems. I'd say these fall into a few categories: mechanical CAD, CFD or FEA. In some cases the higher end systems can be used to do all three.

Many of us "old" engineers started out being interested in automotive and have extensive hands-on experience. The fact that you have hands-on skills is a major advantage but is not everything. A proposed general statement - if you are passionate about designing things and making them work, there are many industries, including automotive, where these skills will always be required. Basic design skill comes with practice as in 10-15 years of practice. You need to have designed parts and put them out in the field and dealt with resolving field "issues" before you can say you are an experienced design engineer.

You seem to be headed for some sort of design type career for at least the short term. Get as much seat time as you can with one of the popular mechanical CAD systems (e.g. SolidWorks, UX, etc.) sign up for projects that involve heat transfer and get seat time with software systems that handle those types of problems. I wouldn't worry too much about the industry, you may start by designing kitchen appliances. In my opinion if you like designing things you can be happy in many different industries. In addition - study and get your P.E. licence. This puts you miles ahead when you are 60 and looking for a job.

I hope this makes some sense.

[1990C4S]

Take a Birkman assessment.