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-   -   Fake service dogs really chap my hide. (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/971608-fake-service-dogs-really-chap-my-hide.html)

KNS 09-26-2017 06:21 PM

I travel via airlines about once a month and on the most recent trip I was surprised how many dogs I saw in the terminal.

That fact that Albertson's has put up signs says they're getting fed up with it. I like the ADA reference in the notice, smart of them to include it.

DanielDudley 09-26-2017 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas (Post 9752528)
Poodles, not to go too much off topic.. But. A month or two ago a pitbull really had it in for a poodle on the beach and was chasing it like it was going for a kill. The poodle would snap a 180 degree turn and back the other way. After about two minutes of this the pitbull was really hitting the wall and had slowed right down. The poodle turned on him and absolutely mauled the pitbull, had him around the throat shaking him etc. LOL, the injustice of it, the pitbull moron owner ran over and beatup the pitbull and the poodle owner made it sit while she waved her finger at it.

There are more poodle mixed breeds than I can list here, The moral being that a poodle will screw anything. The pit bull just didn't know it was screwed.

rockfan4 09-26-2017 08:16 PM

This was in the news a few days ago, what are your thoughts?
Warning - autoplay video Video captures argument about veteran's service dog in restaurant
In the video they refer to the dog as a therapy dog, so the way I see it the woman was right, but maybe could have handled the situation a little different.
I'm not saying the guy doesn't need a dog to cope, but from the Albertson's post above, the dog doesn't perform a specific task, and doesn't need to be in the restaurant.

RKDinOKC 09-26-2017 10:17 PM

For those that are upset by the fakes. Standards, Certifications, and Registration is coming.

speeder 09-26-2017 11:01 PM

Good. Can't come soon enough.

aigel 09-26-2017 11:16 PM

The fact that your grocery store posts that is testimony that it got out of hand. And while this may not be a big issue in the grand scheme of things, it is morally very wrong, a slap in the face of the handicapped and BS that someone buys a fake service dog vest / paperwork.

I saw a documentary or online video in the past about a vet that had PTSD. His service dog would make sure to keep distance between him and people, so nobody would crowd him or inadvertently sneak up on him. It was a bit like a herding dog. The vet wasn't physically handicapped and the dog looked like your average pet. A guy like that who really needs his dog and has enough issues going out in public now will get the stink eye because of all these *******s putting fake vests on their pooch.

G

flatbutt 09-27-2017 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 9751959)
I saw a handicapped permit in a Ferrari 355 at the local indoor shooting range a few years ago. What handicap allows you to get in and out of one of those and carry your shooting rig to the range?

One that doesn't require a wheelchair. This is the point I tried to make earlier, not all handicaps require a wheelchair. People give me strange looks when I pull out a telescoping cane just after I dismount the Ducati.

Paul_Heery 09-27-2017 06:17 AM

I wasn't expecting this when I saw that it had to do with a passenger being kicked off a plane because of a pet.

Passenger Pulled Off Southwest Flight From BWI To LAX « CBS Baltimore

ossiblue 09-27-2017 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKDinOKC (Post 9752919)
For those that are upset by the fakes. Standards, Certifications, and Registration is coming.

As has been mentioned, true service animals are trained to perform specific tasks to accommodate specific disabilities. These animals are identified as service animals according to the ADA, a federal agency. It seems to me that those who train service animals would like to see a single, standardized way to identify a real service animal. There is no need to standardize training, only that the animal fulfills the definition of a service animal as spelled out by the ADA. It wouldn't have to be complicated or expensive and it would be the responsibility of the training agency to obtain the certification which should cost very little--basically, it's a federal registration.

The real "price" would be fraudulent attempts to certify, in which case fines and/or jail time would be significant and it would be a federal offense. Paperwork or identifying certificates could be standardized and issued by the trainers. The penalty for forging/counterfeiting certificates would apply to anyone, trainer or pet owner, who attempts to identify an animal that has not legitimately been trained to meet the ADA standards. The legitimate animals could even be "chipped", if the owners so wish.

I don't know if the issue is widespread enough to justify regulatory legislation. The training agencies may have an entirely different point of view and don't want to be burdened with regulation that is unnecessary. Perhaps a simple law which forbids the issuance and use of anything--document, collar, or vest--that uses the term "service animal" for any animal that cannot be proved to have met the ADA standards, would suffice as long as the penalty for violation is substantial and is a federal crime. That would place the burden on the animal owner.

upsscott 09-27-2017 09:40 AM

Never thought much about it until this past weekend while at Costco. This "Service" dog dropped a huge runny deuce right in front of the bakery. Other shoppers and the managers were not happy.

Joe Bob 09-28-2017 02:02 PM

Like we need more regulations but they should regulate it because there isnt any. I can call my dogs bread and there's no regulation that says I can't do it

Kraftwerk 11-12-2017 09:01 PM

Sure some of these people have found a 'loop-hole in the law' at the same time some disabilities are pretty obscure or hidden from view. Service animals can work wonders. You said TSA was happy to see the dog. Who here has ever seen anyone working at TSA actually happy? There, the dog made someones day, unintended consequence, sure but still it counts. In the past two months, with crazy people shooting up a church or a school or a concert...wouldn't you much rather just have a dog pooping in an airport?

RKDinOKC 11-13-2017 12:34 AM

Give me a break, it ain't that big of a deal. If a service dog misbehaves the proprietors are within their right to ask the owner to remove the dog from the premises. So why wouldn't they remove any dog that is any sort of problem.

As far as licensing goes, they just need officially license testers, like for driver's licenses, a person similar to the trainers, groomers at the petcos and smart pets that can test and license a service dog as a well mannered service dog the meets the ADA requirements for obedience. That is really all people care about is if the dog is well mannered. People with a service dog must provide these licenses on demand or be fined. If the license is fake, then throw the book at the owner.

A well trained service dog costs either money or time. And I understand the cost can make people want to cut corners. But when they do they are being unfair to the people around them because the service dog is doing more harm than good AND endangering the dog.

I am currently working to obedience train my Golden so I can take her to Diabetic Alert Dog training. They will not accept me or the dog unless it passes obedience training 100%. And if it misbehaves at all you are kicked out of the class. We are working on not getting distracted.

Porsche-O-Phile 11-13-2017 03:27 AM

Why are so many people here so overly concerned with what other people do?

Seriously, lighten up and butt out. If people want to travel with their pets, let them. It it really hurting you any?

Some of you guys seem to get no pleasure out of life unless it involves sticking your noses into what other people do. What a sad way to live!

It doesn't really bother me if people bring their pets (dogs, usually) into a coffee shop or wherever else I am 99% of the time. Of course if they're being irresponsible a-holes and not watching them, or if the animals are acting up, making a ruckus, etc. then it's a different story (but how often does this happen? I've never seen it).

If someone had a "service" pit bull I might think differently (I don't trust those dogs, sorry - just don't - they're bred to kill and it's in their nature deep down) but again, I've never seen it.

For the most part, live and let live. Lighten up.

ILXLR8 11-13-2017 06:01 AM

Unfortunately I experienced this issue a few months ago.

I own a condo unit in a resort town, South Haven, MI. When we are not using it, I rent it by the week.
Our lease states "NO SMOKING & NO PETS" at the top of the lease.
Well, I got a call from the management company about a dog in our unit, since it is a no pet building.
When I approached the tenants and told them that the dog must be removed, I was told that it is a emotional support animal and it is staying.
They then called the police, good old "hillbilly style" in an attempt to have me arrested for denying a service animal.
Unfortunately since this scam is in its infant stage, the police and I did not have much knowledge or experience in the area, so they "kept the piece" and I chose to leave.
The next day, after going around a few times with the tenant, I talked to their attorney. The attorney and I had a chat and the dog was removed from the property.

What did I learn?
1) A emotional support animal is NOT a service animal! They are two different things, with two different set of rules. ADA only supports service animals.
2) Scammers act in a different manner than legit people. For example scammers will try to get away with it to not get caught rather than asking for a accommodation.
3) True service animals act different as well.
4) Misrepresenting a pet as a service animal is a misdemeanor in many states.
5) This scam is getting very common, so people can have their pets travel with them at no charge, while sitting next to them in the aircraft rather than in a crate in the baggage area.
6) If I had the proper knowledge ahead of time, things would have been more simple. See #4

How did this affect me?
1) I had to travel several hours to the rental unit to take care of the problem.
2) I invested major time in proper research to take car of the problem.
3) I had to have the carpets cleaned immediately, since the unit smelled like dog and also to not misrepresent my rental to future tenants.
4) I spent time to dispute pet charges and prove my position to the management company since, in their eyes, I broke the association rules.
5) I had to deal with fallout from this, such as my personal allergies.

Rick Lee 11-13-2017 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 9812695)
Why are so many people here so overly concerned with what other people do?

Seriously, lighten up and butt out. If people want to travel with their pets, let them. It it really hurting you any?

Some of you guys seem to get no pleasure out of life unless it involves sticking your noses into what other people do. What a sad way to live!

A sad way to live is to have to pay full rate for your pet on an airplane because you're honest, while others just pay for a bogus service dog vest on eBay or Amazon and then have their pet (not service dog) sit with them in the main cabin. And yes, I am concerned when I have to try to avoid stepping in a pile of dog schit in an airport terminal or Costco or restaurant because a lot of people think the rules don't apply to them. This is not a rare occurrence, the kind you almost have to go looking for. As mentioned, the local grocery store has had to put its foot down because it's becoming so common. Tell me you'd have no problem allowing fake service dogs into your restaurant or cafe and then handling the complaints and clean up when one of them makes a stinking mess in your dining room. How many of those instances would you tolerate before you also had to put up a sign (likely after paying for a chat with your lawyer to make sure you weren't running afoul of the ADA)?

Chocaholic 11-13-2017 06:17 AM

Dissenting voice here. I love dogs. We have three large ones...always have. I travel weekly by plane and have never known a dog to create problems. In fact, I’m usually impressed with how well trained they are. Far better trained than most children I encounter. Far better.

To borrow a expression, the more people I meet, the more I like my dogs. The more the merrier.

legion 11-13-2017 06:35 AM

Around here, I've never seen anyone abuse the service dog laws. I've only regularly seen two: a lady who is obviously blind with a seeing eye dog, and a girl who gets physical therapy at my gym who clearly has some neurological disorder (I assume the dog is for seizures). If either of them are faking it, they are going to great lengths. The lady takes Uber everywhere and the girl has a walker.

The only other place I regularly see dogs is at Bass Pro--which explicitly allows them.

RKDinOKC 11-13-2017 06:57 AM

One of the first things they teach a service dog is going to the restroom on command. After they get that it is pretty easy to teach them to tell you they need to go. All three of my Goldens go to the restroom on command.

Went to the vet once and he said he would need to keep her overnight to get a pee sample to see if she had kidney stones. Took her out behind his shop and he brought a tray. Sat the tray down in the parking lot, pointed at it and said do your stuff. She squatted over the pan and peed in it. The vet was very surprised. I got the results immediately and didn't have to leave her overnight.

If my current Golden has to go and it's raining out I grab a plastic grocery bag, put in down on my covered front porch so it is open and the sides are low, point at it and tell her to do her stuff. She goes in the bag. Empty it in the toilet then tie up the bag and dump it in the outside trash. If I was out somewhere would just double bag and toss it in the closest outdoor trash bin. Does not happen very often at all.


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